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it was completely silent it comes right

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over our heads he saw a

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classic flying saucer really standing in

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the clearing he turned over to my father

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and held his hand and he looked in his

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welcome to podcast ufo for our live show

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we're live every wednesday at 8 p.m

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eastern standard time on the dark matter

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radio network please remember to visit

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the website podcastufo.com

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for past episodes blogs and forums

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during the show feel free to participate

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live in our chat room

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and don't forget to like us on our very

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active facebook page

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and we have a repeat guest uh ben moss

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is on

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and uh we're gonna be talking uh this

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this show in particular is not gonna be

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all the rainbows and unicorns we're

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gonna be talking uh

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what is this saying drain the swamp uh

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we're going to be talking about some the

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negative things in you ufology um today

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and uh i hope that you know by the end

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of the show we can

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um say some positive things and and and

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come up with some ideas in the future

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that uh that will help um as we move

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forward i've been doing the show now

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it's coming up in six years i can't

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believe it and um i still don't know

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anything more than i knew when i started

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uh i was criticized for that recently

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and and that's okay

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um

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because i don't pretend to know anything

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i'm just

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here uh exploring basically so we have

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uh

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alejandra rojas will be coming back next

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week he is on the plane now flying home

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from budapest

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i don't know if any of you follow him on

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facebook um but he was posting some

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awesome pictures

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and it'll be good to have him back in

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town

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so our guest

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ben moss

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like i said he's been on with uh he's

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been on with tony

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angiola a number of times

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and he's mufon's chief field

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investigator in virginia and uh he's

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also part of the

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strike team area research

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or star team

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and uh he's been on history channels uh

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hangar one and a lot of other shows uh

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paranormal tv and on and on uh welcome

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to the show ben

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thanks thanks for having me i should say

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welcome back to the show

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yeah yeah

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so uh

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as i mentioned you know we're gonna be

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talking about you know some of the the

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issues

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um that are happening uh

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in the ufo field in general and i know

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there was uh you wanted to get some

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things off of your chest you wanted to

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talk about a little bit as well but uh

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for the person that's not familiar with

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you um

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that hadn't seen you on before can you

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give a little bit of your background and

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what got you interested in the topic to

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begin with

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uh yeah i um my dad was interested uh in

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ufos and when i was a little kid i

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remember climbing up on the bed and

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watching the walter cronkite special

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about ufos it was kind of a skeptical

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show

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and we did post that on our mufon va

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website but that got me going and then i

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was pretty much hooked from that point

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forward to the point where

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all the kids in the neighborhood were

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throwing frisbees up taking pictures of

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so

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how did you get involved in all the

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investigating and all that and move on

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what's what started that course

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uh that was in the 90s um i joined mufon

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and uh went to a conference and um and

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then i got interested in becoming an

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investigator and uh in 1999 i actually

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ran the security for the uh

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for the one in crystal city um that was

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really well attended i think seven or

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eight hundred people were there and uh

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then you know after doing i don't know

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about 40 or 50 investigations sue

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schweitek our state director promoted me

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to chief hill investigator

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and i've been uh disseminating working

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cases ever since um

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you know the more i've done the more

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i've gotten into it and uh it's just

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escalated from there with everything

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that's been happening in the last two or

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three years uh

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getting on the show hanger one was was a

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boost because more people just talked to

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me um because they recognized me so it's

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uh it's one of those things the more you

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do the more you people you meet the more

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people that want to talk to you

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and it just snowballs from there now

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hanger one had a little bit of

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controversy too you know i mean people

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were in the ufo field we're saying you

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know ah it's not so good or exaggerated

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um what did you think in general of the

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show if or can you set yourself aside

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and look at it

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uh or or is it just a biased opinion the

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only way you can go about something like

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that well um i remember the the kind of

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the blue book show that was on the past

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and you know the

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the one with robert stack and you know

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it was it was less fanfare and and more

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following uh cases that you know mufon

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actually investigated so i think when

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you take a lot of the wow out of the

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shows and have this really slick

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presentation that's what people are used

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to and there are other shows that do it

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that way the history channel show was

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pretty accurate um there was a little

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bit of embellishment here and there but

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i thought they did a good job with the

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stories um you know we just had uh

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several of us just didn't like the one

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about the the mars tale that's a whole

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other story

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but

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taking the cases that they that they

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picked um and those were selected by

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jeremy uh jeremy ray and some other

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people kind of helped with that but they

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picked really good cases i thought they

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did a good job they didn't change

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what really happened in the case because

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they're so unusual to begin with you

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don't have to add special effects and

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all these after thing after market

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things to to make this thing look better

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the stories are pretty fascinating as

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they are but i thought they did a good

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job i mean there were certain topics

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that we got on there a little bit out

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there but the cases were pretty well

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represented so

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and i'm trying not to be biased about it

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but if i wasn't on the show i still

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would have watched the show i watched

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almost all ufo shows the good ones and

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the bad ones and you can learn something

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from all of them

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right right

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now okay

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you know that uh mufon's been

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you know under scrutiny over the last

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year and uh uh all the way from the

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guests at their last symposium kind of

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being out there a bit or a bit fringy to

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um the issue with john ventry

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um you know i figured we could just talk

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about it all tonight you know get it all

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off our chest and see if we still have a

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well you know that uh

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when john ventury posted that um that

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i guess you would call it a rant um

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you know i actually called him up and

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told him because i know john i told him

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i said you know you should probably

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think about stepping down because that's

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where everything's going to lead to

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eventually and

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then mufon had kind of a halfway

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response and then kind of got backlash

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um social media is funny because they

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they'll jump on anything you know to get

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the ball rolling um but you know it was

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there are some things said that

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most people wouldn't agree with because

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they were you know fairly uh

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inflammatory and racist and so

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um

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you know it's just one of those things

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where

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guilt by association and um and jan

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maybe could have done a better job of

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just jumping on it right away because

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when i talked to john before he actually

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got let go completely i i said you know

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this is going to end with you

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leaving your position one way or another

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so it was just one of those things that

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um a lot of people were waiting to jump

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on mufon and that was a good catalyst

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but um

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in the last symposium that i was at in

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las vegas you know there were some

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topics that you know that it's like i've

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said before if you had a symposium of

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scientific data and white papers you'd

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probably have about 50 attendees and

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they'd all be scientists

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if you have a show about you know trips

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to mars with ross perot and and you know

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going back in time and time regression

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and dinosaurs on mars then

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you're gonna have seven or eight hundred

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people show up which is exactly what

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happened you know you know go ahead the

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one thing i wanted to add to that was

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just my observation because i was

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talking a lot of people but

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you know you got a lot of people

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that criticized mufon from the computer

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screen and you know everybody's

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very brave behind a computer screen but

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there's so many people that come to this

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conference from far away from other

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countries that are in walkers and

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wheelchairs and respirators and you know

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if some of the people that criticize

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mufon would just get out maybe come to

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one of the symposiums and meet some

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people you might have a bigger picture a

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bigger understanding of all the people

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involved in that

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so you know i i just it's easy to jump

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on something if you're not involved in

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it you don't know the inner workings of

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it it's another thing if you're part of

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it and you can see all the different

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clashes going on and what's going on

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behind the scenes but you know kudos to

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people that make it there that probably

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haven't left their house in a year i

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mean the average age at a conference is

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certainly over 45. yeah and uh you know

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it's just it's just tough it's easy to

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throw out barbs from a computer screen

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but you know do something about it

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uh yeah uh i

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i like jan harzon and i don't know if

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you caught kevin randall's

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interview with him

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but he he asked him you know some pretty

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strong questions

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um you know about um the people that

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donate

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the five thousand dollars or more that

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get into the inner circle and you know

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what type of information they get

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uh i thought that was uh that was

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interesting i had no idea about that

278
00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:52,000
part of it

279
00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:55,360
yeah i did hear that and uh it was um

280
00:10:00,070 --> 00:09:57,040
you know it was interesting

281
00:10:01,350 --> 00:10:00,080
like you said yeah yeah

282
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:01,360
now

283
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:04,000
i think i might also get my rants over

284
00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:06,480
with um

285
00:10:09,829 --> 00:10:07,519
okay

286
00:10:12,389 --> 00:10:09,839
and i gotta tell you every every time uh

287
00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:12,399
you know i i rail against

288
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:15,120
uh dr stephen greer i lose support i

289
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:18,000
lose supporters um i get nasty emails

290
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:19,360
from some people

291
00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:21,360
i understand

292
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,120
why people

293
00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,760
are attracted to his charisma

294
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:27,360
and

295
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:29,519
he seems you know in general he seems

296
00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:31,360
like a nice guy and i'm going to say

297
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:34,320
some some positive things as well as

298
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:37,360
uh the things that really upset me about

299
00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:40,240
what he has been doing and you know the

300
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:43,040
last two movies serious and uh

301
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:44,640
unacknowledged i don't know if you

302
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:46,560
caught that did you have to catch it you

303
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:48,480
did yeah

304
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,680
um

305
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:51,680
the serious one i thought was a total

306
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:55,680
ego thing you know um so and

307
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:56,880
uh

308
00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:59,040
that and you know the

309
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:01,600
basically the bottom line is the atacama

310
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:04,160
as i called the baby alien there ended

311
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:07,760
up you know with a human dna uh so if

312
00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:09,279
you watched unacknowledged then you'll

313
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:10,160
see

314
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:13,440
that in this show he also talks about

315
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:16,000
that let's see i have a quote here i i

316
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:17,600
wrote the quote down

317
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:18,640
and

318
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:20,880
uh basically that

319
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:24,240
of course oh yes the body the alien you

320
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:27,600
know body is most likely not human

321
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:29,839
so he's still hanging on to that and i

322
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:31,680
think

323
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:33,920
uh i liken him a little bit to a cult

324
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:36,640
leader because he has these very very

325
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:39,200
strong followers that will attack you if

326
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,880
you say anything negative about it and

327
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,160
i really

328
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,720
would have to say that he's probably one

329
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:48,720
of the biggest charlatans of our time in

330
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:51,279
the ufo field

331
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:53,040
and i think he's in it only for the

332
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:54,720
money um

333
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:57,279
you know it's it's kind of like a rock

334
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:59,040
star it takes a while to get to the very

335
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:01,279
top and you make a lot of money in the

336
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,760
ufo field there's hardly any money made

337
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,720
by anybody but if you're at the very top

338
00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:08,320
you can make some money

339
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,120
uh and the way you make money is not

340
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,839
necessarily through fame of

341
00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:15,760
say television shows or movies or

342
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:17,440
anything like that but certainly not

343
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:19,279
that way donations

344
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,160
you know

345
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,480
his his website is totally set up for

346
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:25,200
donations i have to say unacknowledged

347
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:28,399
um was very well done it was a really it

348
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,600
was nice nice music uh absolutely

349
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:33,440
fantastic editing

350
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:36,399
some great ufo clips i really thought he

351
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,079
did have he there was a couple in there

352
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,320
that you know have been proven wrong

353
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,480
uh hoaxes and things but for the most

354
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:44,399
part the clips that he had in there were

355
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:45,519
really good

356
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:47,839
video clips of ufos i thought

357
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:50,720
okay so here's a couple things that it

358
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,360
really baffled me that richard dodie

359
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:55,519
the richard doty in the paul benowitz

360
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:56,399
case

361
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,240
was uh talking about aliens and about

362
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,480
you know the ones that he saw and things

363
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:04,000
like that i don't know where that came

364
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,920
from i don't know

365
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,360
how much you know about richard dodie

366
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:08,240
but

367
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:10,000
um i was kind of shocked to hear him

368
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:12,000
talk about that did you what did you

369
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,680
think of that

370
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:16,079
yeah you know dodie has that terrible

371
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:18,320
history with

372
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:21,200
linda molten howe and the paul benowitz

373
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,000
and

374
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:25,040
i it's just you never know what's

375
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,959
what's the truth and what's made up and

376
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:28,800
what's conjecture and what's you know

377
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,440
because i know dr greer has been caught

378
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,639
um

379
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:34,959
with that dinner table talk about uh

380
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,639
some type of revelation when the guy

381
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,480
said he was just being cordial

382
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:40,399
so you know i don't believe i've met

383
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,440
stephen greer um and i never try to

384
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:45,279
talk about somebody's character that i

385
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:47,040
haven't met but you know

386
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:49,600
like we said before a red flag to me is

387
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,079
if you're generating income by you know

388
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:54,160
taking people out on trips to see things

389
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:54,959
um

390
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:57,600
you've got to produce and so if you're

391
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,519
in this for money

392
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,519
there's something you have to keep doing

393
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,760
to produce money and it's dangling that

394
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,600
carrot right in front of you

395
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:07,279
just out of reach so you never really

396
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:09,920
catch it because there's no carrot

397
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,519
so yeah the whole thing is that um

398
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:15,519
i think the best thing he ever did was

399
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:17,600
definitely when all the uh people came

400
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:19,199
together at the press club in washington

401
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,800
d.c absolutely that was a great

402
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,720
presentation that's that's that's a

403
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,800
great way to do things but

404
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:27,279
everything else around it just has

405
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:30,160
you know a is a big red flag to me i i

406
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:32,800
richard dodie you know definitely

407
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:34,480
was lying about a lot of things admitted

408
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,240
he was lying you know to send people

409
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,079
down the rabbit hole i just think

410
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,480
there's a lot of misdirection here but

411
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,480
underlying it all there's

412
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,079
there's not anything of substance you

413
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,160
know if if you have proof that you're

414
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,240
calling down ufos where are the videos

415
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,720
where's the electromagnetic readings you

416
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,079
know where's the gravitometer the

417
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:54,560
magnetometer the daylight you know all

418
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,320
of that it's just not there and um this

419
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:00,800
constant need for donations and things

420
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:02,480
you know if it's about the money you're

421
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:05,360
going to find ways to get money and it's

422
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,519
probably not the way to investigate ufos

423
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:09,360
because ufos take you where they want to

424
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,600
take you you can't pigeonhole them and

425
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,519
then uh you know command them to come

426
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,880
down command them to be in a certain

427
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:16,720
spot at a certain time so

428
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,800
i i just you know it just leaves me with

429
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,639
a bad taste in my mouth well you know he

430
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,000
was charging

431
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:25,199
um people i forget what the fee was

432
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,160
um at one of those um you know citing

433
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:29,519
whatever they called

434
00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:33,199
uh see seti was sighting uh

435
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,760
sky watches he was charging them so much

436
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,240
a piece to take a picture in this ufo

437
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,639
that nobody could see you know i don't

438
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,560
know if you heard about that or not yeah

439
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,040
yeah yeah um so one of the parts in the

440
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:47,680
movie he starts sobbing and i don't i

441
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:50,240
never you know i'm a guy and you know i

442
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,880
can sob too i understand that but i

443
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,440
think it was theatrical and basically it

444
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:57,839
was about his coming of age

445
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:01,120
as a young doctor and it being uh being

446
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:03,759
briefed by the cia director that's

447
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:07,040
woolsey um who again he never spoke you

448
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,480
know never

449
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,240
no one thinks he really had meetings

450
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:12,079
with him

451
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:13,920
but you know he started sobbing about

452
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,880
that because he was he had to

453
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:17,920
um

454
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:19,920
the according to him the president and

455
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:22,000
the cia director were being lied to and

456
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,920
he had to they came to him and that's

457
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:25,839
what he was sobbing about as they came

458
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:28,560
to him so he could help them

459
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:31,199
and then also he said that there's a

460
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:33,440
bullet in this room with everyone's name

461
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,880
on it and

462
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:36,399
if uh what you

463
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,320
say here goes out of this room that

464
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,800
bullet will find you

465
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:42,480
you know that that type of thing i think

466
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:43,360
that

467
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:46,480
and people are buying into it it's uh

468
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:47,600
it's kind of

469
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:52,959
think it it hurts the ufo field and then

470
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,519
he gets into the free energy part he has

471
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,600
this thing called the new earth

472
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:58,959
incubator

473
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,519
he has a funding project on his website

474
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,160
he needs to raise 1 to two hundred one

475
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:06,480
hundred to two hundred million dollars

476
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:08,480
and you're welcome to donate as much as

477
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,959
you possibly can so

478
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,720
well

479
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:14,240
yeah that uh

480
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,439
that's just

481
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:17,199
you know if anybody had a free energy

482
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,959
device uh

483
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,640
you would patent it you would go public

484
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,480
you would make the money without needing

485
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,280
to ask for it uh or on the other end the

486
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,199
big oil would have to have you rubbed

487
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:29,039
out or something you know

488
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,480
but uh

489
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:32,400
i just don't i just don't see it you

490
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,840
know it's just like with a lot of the

491
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:35,760
claims of people

492
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:37,840
that are really outlandish if you cannot

493
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,559
prove something and your only source of

494
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:42,960
verification is everybody else saying

495
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,400
the same thing

496
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:46,559
then you don't have any verification

497
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:50,480
yeah yeah that's right um and also

498
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,880
uh i got a call from lee spiegel he

499
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:54,559
watched he had a pre-screening of the

500
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,240
movie several months ago

501
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,080
and he called me and said

502
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:00,400
the thing that upset him the most is two

503
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:03,200
times in the movie they say that j allen

504
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,720
heineck was uh heading project blue book

505
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:09,120
that really upset him for some reason

506
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:10,400
that's a big flaw

507
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,280
yeah yeah i mean it wasn't caught

508
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,240
but anyway um so that's that's all i

509
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,000
have to say you know like i said i

510
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:20,080
understand why people

511
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,760
have the attraction to

512
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,000
uh stephen gray he seems really honest

513
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:26,240
and like you said i really do commend

514
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:28,160
him for the way he started it's just too

515
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:30,160
bad i think he he took a fork in the

516
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,120
road

517
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,240
um because he that was a really big deal

518
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,559
the thing he did back in what year was

519
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,000
that do you remember it was going way

520
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:40,640
back uh was it 99 somewhere around there

521
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,840
maybe two thousand um i was there i just

522
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,120
can't

523
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:47,280
i was there i was standing in the back

524
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:50,240
yeah um but uh yeah i mean if

525
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,440
if the goal is to uncover the

526
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,200
mystery of what ufos are that's one

527
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,120
thing if the goal is to

528
00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:59,919
make an income and generate you know a

529
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,520
salary each year

530
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:03,039
then that's just not going to work the

531
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,799
two don't go together

532
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,640
yeah absolutely you have to have it's

533
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:08,400
like um

534
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:09,360
like

535
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,080
um i know you you feel the same way as i

536
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:14,320
do i do this for a passion i don't do it

537
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,880
for obviously i don't do it for money

538
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:18,640
um you know that's not what i'm looking

539
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,840
for otherwise

540
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:21,039
you know i would have quit a long time

541
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:23,679
ago when the cost started rising on my

542
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,400
uh

543
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:26,160
you know my server and stuff like that

544
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:27,280
uh

545
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:33,840
another

546
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:37,280
uh there was a billy meyer ufo shot it

547
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:39,919
was one of the clips in greer's movie

548
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,559
which i was kind of surprised

549
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,080
most of those

550
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:46,799
are you know hoaxes i get contacted by

551
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:50,240
uh michael horn is it michael horn yeah

552
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,160
several times a year wanting to be on my

553
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,960
show and i i i don't know

554
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:55,919
um

555
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:56,720
you know

556
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,919
i just can't have him on the show

557
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,679
you know so we get into it each time and

558
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,280
i just say look i'm not gonna argue with

559
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,520
you i just i don't trust anything that

560
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:07,679
billy meyer you know maybe billy meyer

561
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,240
did have some sightings at one time

562
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:12,080
possibly but you know

563
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:15,039
so many things are proven hoaxes and

564
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:16,480
it's another thing where the government

565
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,760
comes in you know and uh changes things

566
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:21,360
according to

567
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:22,480
them

568
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:23,520
right

569
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:24,240
yeah

570
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,080
billy myers another person that found an

571
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:30,559
avenue towards making money

572
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,280
and almost every

573
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:35,760
decent photo that i've seen has been

574
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,880
broken down to show models and you know

575
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,400
um

576
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,080
tape coming off of some of the

577
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:45,360
motherships and you know things that uh

578
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,360
people have pointed out and you know a

579
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,520
lot of people have even better knowledge

580
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,600
about um but you know

581
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:53,760
it's kind of like the dan frye and a lot

582
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:56,000
of these guys back in the day

583
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:57,919
i haven't seen anything real that billy

584
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:59,280
meyer and that's probably going to upset

585
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:00,559
a lot of people but you know when you

586
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,320
really do the homework and dig into it

587
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,480
um there's so much

588
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,159
an example is the one thing i remember

589
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:08,080
clearly was a ufo that goes around a

590
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:09,200
tree

591
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,320
in his field and this guy goes out there

592
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,640
and says there's no tree there you know

593
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,039
and that's when we found out that he was

594
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,679
growing these little japanese trees

595
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,760
and probably inserted that into the

596
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:24,000
video and and with a small model made it

597
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:25,760
look like a giant oak tree or something

598
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:27,919
so that's right yeah you shoot yourself

599
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:29,760
in the foot once and your credibility is

600
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:31,760
down the tubes pretty quickly at least

601
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:33,679
with most people that do their homework

602
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,120
well you know if you

603
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:37,280
if any part of something

604
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:38,400
is

605
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,840
whole situation you know i'm a fine arts

606
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,520
appraiser and

607
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,440
that's how i have to look at something

608
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:49,600
unfortunately and what i do is guilty

609
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:51,120
till proven innocent instead of the

610
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:52,400
other way around

611
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,120
so if you see like a house that has one

612
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,640
fake in it

613
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,960
then you really have to be careful and

614
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,240
with everything you're appraising and

615
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,080
that's how i feel that's how i feel

616
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:04,720
about things like the mj12 documents for

617
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:07,760
instance yeah um i know stan friedman i

618
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:10,320
have a lot of respect for stan friedman

619
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,120
um

620
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,280
really like him a lot but i know he

621
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:15,120
believes that there are a few that are

622
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,960
are correct and

623
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:18,799
uh to me

624
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,679
i

625
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:20,640
you know

626
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:22,000
it could be

627
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:24,640
a campaign of disinformation to mix them

628
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,520
in and have people not believe in it i i

629
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:29,440
can understand that could possibly

630
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:31,840
happen but i question those what do you

631
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:34,880
think about the whole mj-12 situation

632
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:37,520
you know it's probably sandwiched around

633
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,480
some type of real document but

634
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:42,559
i i've looked at these extensively you

635
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:45,280
know the first red flag is anonymous

636
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,159
mail

637
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,880
sent to what jamie chandira

638
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:50,799
so you have an anonymous source you

639
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:53,280
can't verify anything from that source

640
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,640
then you have some flaws in the

641
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:56,799
documents that one with the harry truman

642
00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:59,039
signature looks like precise copy from a

643
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:02,320
real document and you know there

644
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,200
is it magic is it mj12 i mean when you

645
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:07,280
kind of dig back into that there's a lot

646
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,720
of problems i know that stan stanton has

647
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:12,400
addressed some of the issues with fonts

648
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,039
and things like that but i think it's

649
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,039
probably disinformation built around

650
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,960
some truth like legends you know or have

651
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:20,720
a little bit basis of truth but look at

652
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,919
the rabbit hole that sent a lot of

653
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,120
people down look at the time and

654
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,520
resources to investigate that if it is

655
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,200
kind of made up around maybe some real

656
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,039
document they did their job they took

657
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,960
people off the path and they've spent 20

658
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:32,400
years analyzing these things because

659
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:34,240
they came out in 189

660
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:35,280
yeah so

661
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,120
you know if it is fake look at all the

662
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,280
wasted time and money and documents and

663
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:41,120
presentations and

664
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:43,039
i mean it's just crazy well think of the

665
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:45,200
time that stan himself

666
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,080
has

667
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,960
in that you know trips to washington you

668
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,679
know luckily someone funded him for for

669
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:53,120
doing that but

670
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:55,760
you know just the time involved and you

671
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:57,840
know i'm sure he i'm sure he enjoyed it

672
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,520
too but still um it was that was uh that

673
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:03,440
was really something and he likes

674
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:06,000
digging through the archives right right

675
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:09,039
i had mentioned to him on my show that i

676
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:09,840
had

677
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:13,360
uh at an auction house as uh cia former

678
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,320
cia agent retired his estate was there

679
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,440
and i found mj 12 documents in his foot

680
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:20,640
locker

681
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:24,320
or i didn't the auctioneer uh did um but

682
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:25,600
you know there are copies the same

683
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,200
copies that are floating all around and

684
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:28,880
who knows why he had them but i don't

685
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:31,440
think it's anything serious you know

686
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,440
yeah uh so i just before um we keep uh

687
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:37,520
our rants going here

688
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,159
i'm gonna ask you a question or two that

689
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,200
came in uh for you

690
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:45,440
in your opinion do you think this is uh

691
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,240
actually from kerry in the forum and do

692
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:49,840
you think that bob bigelow has been

693
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:51,440
given any information from the

694
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,480
government as a precursor to finding out

695
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:57,039
the truth especially with the money he

696
00:25:02,149 --> 00:25:01,360
has spent on investigating this topic

697
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,159
uh

698
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,080
well bob bigelow you know he did have

699
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,279
access to some of the um close cases at

700
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,840
mufon and he paid for that access but he

701
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,600
um i believe

702
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:13,520
from my understanding and he's a smart

703
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,520
guy and i had given kudos for coming out

704
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,080
with what he said on national news about

705
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:20,400
alien presence but um

706
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:23,039
he was looking for propulsion evidence

707
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,799
pretty much so because he wants to put

708
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,640
hotels in space and do a lot of things

709
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:29,120
like elon musk is doing where space is

710
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,640
next frontier

711
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:32,880
so if by studying some of these really

712
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,640
good uh evidential mufon cases you can

713
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,400
learn something about the propulsion

714
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,320
which is what all has been trying to do

715
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,480
especially recently

716
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:45,039
that is the reason why he dug into it my

717
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:46,400
understanding was you know if he could

718
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:48,080
get some material he could understand

719
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:49,279
what these things are made of how

720
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,480
they're withstanding the pressures of

721
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,320
space if you can figure out some of the

722
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:54,880
propulsion characteristics of how

723
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,200
if something two miles wide

724
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:59,600
or long is sitting in the atmosphere the

725
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,760
amount of energy required to keep it in

726
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:04,159
one place is just amazing so you know i

727
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,840
think he was trying to get an inside

728
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,120
look at

729
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,880
what he could do to help with his

730
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,720
programs in space

731
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:12,400
and he might have gotten some data i

732
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:14,799
just i i don't know uh

733
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,600
a lot of what he did is kind of

734
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,279
not out the public

735
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:25,190
so i don't know if you want uh

736
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:26,799
i know you had some other topics you

737
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:29,679
wanted to talk about but um i can go

738
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:32,000
into i only have two rants

739
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:33,520
to make

740
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:34,320
uh

741
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:37,760
not not really i have a few more but

742
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:39,760
still i don't have too much but i

743
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,840
remember when we initially put this show

744
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,840
together you said you wanted to you know

745
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:46,159
get some things off your chest

746
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,240
so uh yeah there i mean a lot of the

747
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:52,400
a lot of the social media attacks and

748
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,080
people have attacked me and that's fine

749
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:56,640
i don't mind but um

750
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,039
you know this whole thing about um the

751
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:01,279
scientific study of ufos which

752
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:02,799
mufon is

753
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,640
kind of steered away from a little bit

754
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:06,960
um there's a point there and there's a

755
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,799
point for both sides but

756
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:10,799
there's so many videos and things that

757
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,120
pop up online and i'll go in and say you

758
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,480
know cgi or you know fake inserted image

759
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,240
and i'll just get hammered how do you

760
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,000
know that you know uh you're just you're

761
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:21,919
just it's got to be a mufon case for you

762
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:24,240
to agree with it i'm like no you know

763
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:26,320
the the key thing for a lot of these

764
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,120
things that are being posted online is

765
00:27:34,390 --> 00:27:31,520
is there any evidence of anomalous

766
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,400
movement or propulsion and just like the

767
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,200
chilean video that um

768
00:27:40,390 --> 00:27:39,039
uh you know was found to be an airplane

769
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,400
that was so far away just wasn't showing

770
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,520
up on the radar and it was hitting a

771
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:43,200
condensation

772
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:44,880
level of what thirty thousand feet was

773
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,039
shooting the the plume out the back

774
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:48,880
which in infrared was black and looked

775
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,400
weird but you know that was not

776
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,080
anomalous at all it was an airplane it

777
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,240
was flying in a straight line it had a

778
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:56,000
plume come out and people didn't realize

779
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,520
it was being filmed in infrared so they

780
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,279
thought wow that's ejecting material

781
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,200
it's some type of without crap

782
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,200
so one of my big rants that i try not to

783
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,120
go into too deeply is the fact that

784
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:07,679
people will see a video and then repost

785
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:10,159
it on facebook or wherever and say it's

786
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:12,159
the greatest ufo video ever when it

787
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:13,600
shows none of the characteristics of

788
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:15,919
things we look for

789
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,000
and it goes down the line of a lot of

790
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,240
things out in the public now the nazca

791
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:22,240
mummies and you know the three-fingered

792
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:25,279
alien and all these things that have no

793
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,240
backing no scientific background to them

794
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,480
it's kind of gotten the one thing social

795
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,159
media has done is you can take a subject

796
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:35,760
and run with it in such a direction that

797
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,240
it's like flat earthers you know i just

798
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,000
can't believe that people think the

799
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,720
earth is still flat uh it's just amazing

800
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:44,559
to me some of the things that are posted

801
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,679
so

802
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,440
one thing that i'm trying to get to in

803
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,520
my rant here is that

804
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,919
if people do a little bit more homework

805
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:53,120
they would understand what the

806
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,559
difference is between what we're looking

807
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,039
for and all the fakes and the sites like

808
00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:00,000
secure team six or secure team 10

809
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,600
which you know you got to pay to watch

810
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,279
these videos which are probably created

811
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:05,840
by people just for that show and are not

812
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,240
there's nothing real about them so you

813
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,919
have to kind of have a discerning eye

814
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:11,039
especially

815
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,480
in the media we've always had to have

816
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,880
that but in social media also

817
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,799
right yeah you know social media is a

818
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:18,080
whole different

819
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:21,440
to this

820
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,720
and uh

821
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:24,960
um you know my

822
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:28,159
there is a there is a want to believe i

823
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,360
think in a lot of this i i totally get

824
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:33,840
that and like my son says

825
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,240
you know if uh if aliens didn't exist it

826
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,399
would be a lot more boring

827
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:40,559
you know or the possibility of them not

828
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,600
existing

829
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:42,880
um

830
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,320
and so i get i get all that but once

831
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,640
things start rolling

832
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,880
um they're on like a

833
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:52,480
a freight train

834
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:55,760
you know it can't almost unstoppable you

835
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,279
know once uh

836
00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:00,159
once something is bought into and

837
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:01,200
um

838
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,880
you know people are just looking at the

839
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,799
surface and

840
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,039
you know it's it's what what happens

841
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,159
though in situations like this is if

842
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:12,399
someone is thinking about really looking

843
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:15,440
into the topic and excited about it

844
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:18,159
and they right off the bat find out the

845
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,240
first thing they really thought was real

846
00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:22,399
like i remember years ago watching

847
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:24,640
the alien autopsy and thinking oh my god

848
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:26,720
you know what is that yep

849
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,120
so but so many people get burned they

850
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,360
get burned by the experience once they

851
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,760
realize that it was a hoax

852
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:35,919
and uh then they no longer want anything

853
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,000
to do with the topic when uh there's

854
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:40,640
some perfectly good information

855
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,000
and uh real hard work out there

856
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,559
yeah i and and for some people they just

857
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:47,919
can't let go of something that's been

858
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,880
proven to not be true uh it's sad

859
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:52,399
because it's like the

860
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,399
billy meyer and people like that where

861
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,640
you can pretty much show that there's a

862
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,720
lot of hoaxing going on it's hard for

863
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,000
people to let go of something they

864
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:02,240
believed in i you know i've

865
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,000
i've had some things where i thought

866
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:06,399
were really great cases and true and

867
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:08,399
then i found out otherwise and i'm like

868
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,679
oh gosh how do i get fooled so you know

869
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,120
one of the lessons is be careful what

870
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,720
you say especially on social media

871
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,960
because it's permanent it's out there

872
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,480
forever it can be witnessed by seven

873
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,720
billion people um so

874
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,039
with a lot of these things it's best to

875
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:25,760
do some your due diligence your homework

876
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:28,720
and kind of get an idea of what makes

877
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,760
something anomalous and unusual and a

878
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:33,120
ufo

879
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:36,799
and what is a fake cgi man-made

880
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:39,519
atmospheric phenomena or weather related

881
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:40,640
because

882
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,320
just as an example when we had jupiter

883
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:44,159
and saturn really close in the sky a

884
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,679
couple years ago and i went out and

885
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,799
looked at it

886
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,559
it looked really weird but i knew the

887
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:50,880
configuration was there we got about 10

888
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:54,159
15 ufo reports about that and

889
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:55,120
you know it looked like they were

890
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:56,880
dancing in the sky but if you realize

891
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,960
those two plants were close together you

892
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,799
have that diffraction of the atmosphere

893
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,720
where stars look like they twinkle

894
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:04,320
because of all the stuff you're looking

895
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:05,200
through

896
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,720
it looked really strange but if you knew

897
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:08,399
that that event was happening you'd

898
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:09,919
realize hey that's really cool looking

899
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:12,480
but that's jupiter and saturn so it's

900
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,440
one of those things where um

901
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:17,600
you like i've said before you have to

902
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,440
kind of know a little bit about many

903
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:21,519
different sciences to really look at

904
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,360
this with kind of

905
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:25,600
a trained eye i would guess and look at

906
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,600
it so that you're not fooled know a

907
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:29,360
little bit about meteorology a little

908
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:30,399
bit about

909
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,960
what's in the sky where use some of the

910
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,960
apps on your phone those are all things

911
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:38,159
that will help you

912
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,120
you know

913
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,760
it's like a case we went on once where

914
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,840
the woman said she saw ufos constantly

915
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,360
over her house and when we were there i

916
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:47,200
was using my flight trader app i'm like

917
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:48,960
that's a flight out of dulles no that's

918
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,760
a flight going to chicago and and every

919
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:53,679
single thing she thought was ufo was a

920
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:56,799
flight so um i guess it's easy to be

921
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:58,799
fooled because of all the so many shows

922
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,360
now that talk about ufos fiction and

923
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:04,000
reality or kind of reality shows

924
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,840
that um

925
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:07,919
i think some of the old great works in

926
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,880
ufology are not being seen by by this

927
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:12,480
new generations that's coming up some of

928
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:14,000
the greatest books you know that really

929
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:15,840
got into it and did a good job of

930
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,000
talking about it and explaining things

931
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:20,080
and looking at cases and that kind of

932
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,200
thing yeah yeah well you know i titled

933
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:25,840
this show um the elephant in the

934
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:27,919
ufologist's living room or something

935
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:30,399
along those lines and so

936
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:31,919
you know i thought we could touch on

937
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:32,799
some

938
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,440
uh controversial subjects that no one

939
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,600
would really want to talk about and one

940
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:40,080
of those things is uh the stan romanek

941
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:41,440
uh

942
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,320
child pornography case um i don't know

943
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:46,799
if anyone followed that or not but uh

944
00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:49,919
that did you know he did um

945
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:50,840
one

946
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,159
count uh was uh acquitted he was

947
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,640
acquitted of one account but not uh he

948
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,399
was also

949
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:00,000
you know found guilty

950
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:03,039
on uh not dispersing but owning you know

951
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,440
child pornography which

952
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,919
uh i you know that's

953
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:09,919
attacking him as a character me talking

954
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:12,399
about perhaps but they said that you

955
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:14,639
know they wanted to bring ufology into

956
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:16,079
the courtroom

957
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,520
and the reason they wanted to do that

958
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,280
now obviously i didn't hear anything

959
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,839
about it you know

960
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,520
i guess the lawyer was smart enough to

961
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:25,599
say don't go there

962
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,879
but they were going to accuse the

963
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:28,639
government of

964
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,399
coming in

965
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,119
and because of stan's knowledge of all

966
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:35,440
these beings and things like that the

967
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:38,000
government planted the uh child porn on

968
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:38,960
his

969
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:42,000
um

970
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:45,440
so that that's the part that i'm upset

971
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:48,879
about is that you know what what type of

972
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,599
information does he think he has

973
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:53,520
um that he's not been able to prove to

974
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:54,560
the world

975
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:55,919
that the government would actually do

976
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:59,119
something like that to discredit him uh

977
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:01,520
that's kind of the thought i have on

978
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,920
that and i also communicated with uh

979
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,160
lisa romanek you know i just said

980
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:08,640
um i hope you're doing okay

981
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:11,200
um and i hope that you

982
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:13,040
um i hope you get help because i know

983
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,680
denial is a really you know a strong

984
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:17,520
coping mechanism

985
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:20,880
and uh so i received some you know total

986
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:23,599
denial response back to that quite a few

987
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:25,599
uh she wrote me several times

988
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,000
um but just saying that he's 100

989
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:30,960
innocent you know that's so you know i

990
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,119
basically ended my my conversation with

991
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,520
her if you're sitting alone and deep in

992
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,440
your thoughts you feel he's innocent and

993
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,720
maybe you're right

994
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,560
you know so

995
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:43,440
what else yeah that's that's a

996
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,760
was looking at that for years now um

997
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:49,920
you know i was always interested um and

998
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,359
and what he was filming and all but

999
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:54,880
there's two sides of that you know

1000
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:55,920
either

1001
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:58,160
he he loaded that on his computer or was

1002
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,880
put on his computer um if one of the

1003
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,640
other is true then you have two

1004
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,880
different conversations you know if he

1005
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:06,480
was onto something which i don't know if

1006
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,599
he was and they planned it on there well

1007
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:12,240
wow what a way to ruin somebody's life

1008
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,520
um

1009
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,680
if he had it on there that he put it on

1010
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,000
there himself i mean why would you if

1011
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:20,160
you're having this kind of scrutiny

1012
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:21,359
going on

1013
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:22,960
because you're investigating things that

1014
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:24,160
maybe somebody doesn't want you to

1015
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,680
investigate why in the world would you

1016
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:26,880
have something like that on your

1017
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,480
computer and i think it was found in the

1018
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:30,000
closet of this house

1019
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:31,599
the whole thing just sounds really

1020
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,560
strange

1021
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:34,400
not knowing or being able to get to the

1022
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:36,880
truth of the matter i don't know stan so

1023
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:39,280
i can't say that he's this person he's

1024
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:41,200
being portrayed in the media it just

1025
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:43,040
seems very convenient

1026
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:44,800
that they found all this material and

1027
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,280
that uh somebody that seems as smart as

1028
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:48,960
he is would you know would have that

1029
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,119
sitting on a computer because

1030
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:53,280
you know it's i mean it's crazy it's

1031
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,880
just i don't understand the whole thing

1032
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,119
about that but

1033
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,880
it's something that i couldn't really

1034
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,240
say one way or another because i don't

1035
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,720
know if they plan on us computer then

1036
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,560
we're all wrong you know and if they

1037
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:06,640
didn't then what a shame you know what

1038
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:09,359
what a terrible thing either way it is a

1039
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,560
tragedy

1040
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,640
yeah either scenario is terrible it's

1041
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,880
terrible yeah so uh but i don't know the

1042
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:16,880
guy so i can't tell you that oh yeah he

1043
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:20,000
did that that wouldn't be fair um

1044
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:22,160
well he's just three years ahead of that

1045
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:24,560
uh of them you know arresting him

1046
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:25,680
initially

1047
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,560
they had seen the activity going on but

1048
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,640
they didn't have anything in place

1049
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,640
to uh to move forward with it they

1050
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:34,560
didn't have an you know a

1051
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:37,280
cyber porn you know investigation team

1052
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,720
or anything like that but they knew the

1053
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,400
activity was going on

1054
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,800
you know several years ahead of time

1055
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:44,880
um yeah that's a tough one i i just

1056
00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:47,359
wouldn't yeah i i i would hate to

1057
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,440
conjecture something that's not true not

1058
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,760
correct or you know or i'm totally wrong

1059
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:53,760
about it it's it's not fair to that

1060
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,599
person it's

1061
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:57,119
a little hell right now i feel about

1062
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,960
that you know i'm sure it is hell he's

1063
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:01,359
not going to spend any jail time on it

1064
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:04,640
but how i feel about that is um

1065
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,160
you know he

1066
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:07,680
he had choices

1067
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,640
and you know uh also when he went to

1068
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:11,920
court he had

1069
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,440
12 peers um that you know were in the

1070
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,960
jury box

1071
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,400
that found him

1072
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:20,800
guilty you know

1073
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:23,680
so it's how our court systems work

1074
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:27,200
um but i don't think there's any uh you

1075
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:31,200
know big conspiracy about it myself

1076
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:33,040
but i will say this

1077
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:36,880
because of the following that stan has

1078
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,760
he has so much support him and lisa as

1079
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,640
well

1080
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,320
they have all these people are just

1081
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:44,640
pouring out their support to them and

1082
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:46,160
you know all believing that he was

1083
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,359
framed

1084
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:48,960
um yeah i mean

1085
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:51,359
the 12 jury you know we have the oj

1086
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,680
trial so i'm not sure if that that means

1087
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,160
they were accurate so yeah i just you

1088
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,320
know it's just without knowing that you

1089
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:00,480
know he could be a really good guy

1090
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:02,160
that's been screwed somehow or somebody

1091
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:03,680
else could have done that i don't know

1092
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:05,680
but i you know

1093
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:07,920
i just there's nothing i can really say

1094
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:10,160
about that because unless you're him or

1095
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:11,520
your close friend you don't know what

1096
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:13,040
the whole scenario was and that's kind

1097
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,640
of scary you know

1098
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:16,720
because other

1099
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:19,200
there have been a high incidence of ufo

1100
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,520
researchers passing away hopefully

1101
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,280
that's just a coincidence and not

1102
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:25,760
something but you just never know i i

1103
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:27,680
don't think that any of us can get close

1104
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:30,079
enough to any material that would

1105
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:31,839
make them want to do something

1106
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:34,160
drastic like that i mean

1107
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:36,560
sure you might film a black project

1108
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:38,079
that's not where it's supposed to be

1109
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:39,359
which i think has happened with

1110
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,880
somebody's triangular craft and then you

1111
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,480
get a little grief about that

1112
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,880
but um other than that i don't see

1113
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:46,400
unless something lands in your yard

1114
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,920
that's extraterrestrial i don't see how

1115
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,960
you're gonna get a hold of any

1116
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:50,160
information

1117
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:52,160
without hacking something just in

1118
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:54,160
regular investigations that's gonna

1119
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,119
cause

1120
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,119
a three-letter agency to come down on

1121
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,960
you i've always said that you know as a

1122
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,560
member of mufon as investigator we're

1123
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,160
all on the list somewhere

1124
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,720
they know who we are um i'm sure

1125
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,640
um but i don't think we're a threat to

1126
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:08,960
uncover a free energy device or anything

1127
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:10,480
like that

1128
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:11,599
well you know

1129
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:15,599
dr stephen greer does have bodyguards so

1130
00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:17,440
and he's got he's developed a flux

1131
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,070
capacitor

1132
00:40:22,829 --> 00:40:21,119
[Laughter]

1133
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:22,839
that's what it

1134
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:25,440
is just put a little you know trash in

1135
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:27,520
there and it'll fire up and power your

1136
00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:27,930
house

1137
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,119
[Laughter]

1138
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:33,040
yeah in the in the uh

1139
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:34,480
in his uh

1140
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,240
movie unacknowledged he has this um

1141
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:40,880
this i remember when this came out the

1142
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:43,520
guy was powering his car with water

1143
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:45,040
do you remember that

1144
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:46,480
and what are you doing i remember i

1145
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:47,920
remember

1146
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,240
but whatever happened to that 75 mile an

1147
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,720
hour car 75 miles per gallon carburetor

1148
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:54,960
guy that disappeared i mean there have

1149
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,560
been people that have developed

1150
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,760
supposedly engines that run uh very

1151
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:01,599
efficiently and then you don't hear from

1152
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:03,680
them again

1153
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:07,040
the one on water i know that when

1154
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:09,599
right before the um

1155
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:10,960
the uh

1156
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,800
segway came out that people were

1157
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,880
wondering if that was a flying device

1158
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:16,960
when that patent got finally came out it

1159
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:18,240
was actually just something you rode

1160
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,680
around on but

1161
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,000
you know it's conspiracy theories i

1162
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,480
don't know if i think if something would

1163
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:26,160
run on water it'd have to convert it

1164
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,599
somehow to something else and then back

1165
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:29,520
again but you know there's so many good

1166
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:31,280
scientists out there i think somebody

1167
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,119
would have stumbled on that again if

1168
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,040
somebody had perfected it once but i

1169
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,440
haven't seen any evidence of that

1170
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:39,599
right right another question in the

1171
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:41,119
forum is

1172
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,640
from carriers as part of your

1173
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,200
investigative role in mufon have you

1174
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,079
ever seen evidence from a witness or via

1175
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,319
a scientific source

1176
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:52,240
that for one reason or another has not

1177
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:54,560
been disclosed to the public but has

1178
00:42:02,550 --> 00:41:57,920
convinced you of something otherworldly

1179
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,550
i would say that our buddy uh mr

1180
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,640
stanford has uh

1181
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,960
evidence of that yeah um you know some

1182
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:10,240
of the

1183
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:14,240
and he shared with others definitely

1184
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,119
show technology in our atmosphere that i

1185
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,440
don't think came from this world um i'm

1186
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:21,440
not one to jump on the bandwagon and

1187
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:23,040
immediately say if it's not from here

1188
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:24,880
it's e.t it could be a lot of other

1189
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:26,480
possibilities but that that would make

1190
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,079
sense

1191
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,400
you know it's just like if we find

1192
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:32,319
there was life on mars or europa or

1193
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:33,839
anywhere else in our solar system then

1194
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:36,079
mathematically life is everywhere then

1195
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:37,680
the possibility that something might be

1196
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:39,680
monitoring us because we're about to

1197
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:41,839
travel space and we're war-like

1198
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,000
could you know it could be possible we

1199
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,960
could have uh people or civilizations

1200
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:48,560
visiting us because they want to keep an

1201
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:50,400
eye on us because we're starting to

1202
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:52,000
travel space and we have atomic bombs we

1203
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,280
kill each other

1204
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,319
but um a lot of what ray stanford has

1205
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:58,880
shown me and tony and you you know we've

1206
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,160
seen

1207
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,880
very fascinating things there's other uh

1208
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,480
evidence i've seen

1209
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,079
we're doing our talk at mysteries of

1210
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,880
space and sky about propulsion and

1211
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:10,720
you know when you do a talk about ufo

1212
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,640
propulsion it's all speculation and what

1213
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:14,720
you can gather from the available data

1214
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:18,160
but um even with the eclipse in 91

1215
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,400
mexico with that uh

1216
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,560
that silver disc that was filmed by i

1217
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:24,400
think eight or nine different people uh

1218
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:27,440
wasn't planned venus but it did show a

1219
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:30,079
purple plasma flowing behind it as it

1220
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:32,560
moved through space and that i've seen

1221
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:34,880
that in many other videos that i think

1222
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:37,520
are real anomalous objects so

1223
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,119
personally i've seen several videos and

1224
00:43:44,349 --> 00:43:43,040
and even photographs that i think are

1225
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,359
showing a

1226
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,800
non-terrestrial technology and our

1227
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,480
conclusion on the socorro case that

1228
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:50,000
we're still working on

1229
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,760
is that thing wasn't built on by anyone

1230
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:53,200
on this planet because nobody has come

1231
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,880
forward and after the white house the

1232
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:57,359
pentagon cia and blue book

1233
00:44:01,990 --> 00:44:00,319
um to say yeah we built that we flew it

1234
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:02,000
that never happened so

1235
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,760
when you eliminate all the possibilities

1236
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:05,200
you get to that point where you have to

1237
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,480
accept the only remaining answer and and

1238
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,480
for socorro it was that

1239
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:12,079
we can't find any evidence that anybody

1240
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:13,680
built that thing or that that technology

1241
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,079
even exists today so it was probably a

1242
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,920
non-terrestrial craft that landed that

1243
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,680
lonnies and mars saw

1244
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,680
yes

1245
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:24,480
i know uh you're in touch with ray a lot

1246
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:25,520
and i

1247
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:27,920
i uh hear from him oh i don't know a

1248
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:29,920
couple two or three times a month

1249
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:33,839
um so i'm hoping that he's digging and

1250
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:36,079
keeps digging till he finds the original

1251
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:37,520
negative of that

1252
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,280
image of the uh

1253
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,520
the craft when he took a shot you know

1254
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,000
over at the dynamic dynamite shop yeah

1255
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,319
yeah it's a fascinating picture

1256
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:48,160
i think he uh

1257
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,240
he's looking hard and and just like i

1258
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,480
told ray you know i don't think anybody

1259
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,880
grabbed it i think that only ray

1260
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:56,960
knows where things are in ray's house

1261
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:59,200
and you know it's just he's probably put

1262
00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:00,480
it somewhere where he hadn't found it

1263
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:01,200
yet

1264
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:02,240
um but

1265
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,640
yeah that's something that um

1266
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:06,880
that's interesting because um

1267
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:09,520
when james fox told me he had visited uh

1268
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,680
in socorro and they were apparently

1269
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,079
lonnie zamora had been sent pictures

1270
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:16,240
of that craft that other people had

1271
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:19,280
taken but all the pictures were missing

1272
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,480
so

1273
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,480
that's another part of the aspect of the

1274
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:24,400
investigation is we're still trying to

1275
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,400
find somebody else that might have taken

1276
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:28,480
a photograph of us craft like that

1277
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:31,119
because we did find about eight or nine

1278
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,560
points from

1279
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,640
that highway 60 west which we traveled

1280
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:36,720
from scottsdale to or from socorro to

1281
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:38,960
scottsdale when we saw you last at the

1282
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:39,760
um

1283
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,000
ufo congress in arizona

1284
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,400
that were there were about eight or nine

1285
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,880
places where that craft was sighted it

1286
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:48,079
apparently there was a landing at

1287
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:49,839
hollerman there was another landing in

1288
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,359
socorro so out of those eight touches

1289
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,280
where that thing was seen and possibly

1290
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,960
photographed hopefully there's another

1291
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:58,720
photograph out there somewhere so we can

1292
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,440
do some cross-referencing on that

1293
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:03,599
right right speaking of the phoenix

1294
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,800
conference we were both at um i believe

1295
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:08,319
that was the year

1296
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:10,160
where they had the

1297
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,880
uh the hybrids right

1298
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,880
uh yeah it wasn't that was jacques filet

1299
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,560
was there right or was that the year

1300
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:18,160
after i

1301
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:21,359
think so uh anyway 2013 i think

1302
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,280
yeah yeah when we're talking about the

1303
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,240
the hybrids i i do have to say that

1304
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:27,599
um

1305
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,440
you talked about earlier if it was all

1306
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:31,200
science you know nobody would be there

1307
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:33,119
15 people would be there

1308
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:35,119
well these people that were claiming to

1309
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,040
be hybrids you know they

1310
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,920
they showed up and they showed drawings

1311
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:42,240
of their alien selves not pictures but

1312
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,520
drawings

1313
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:45,599
and it was uh it was it was kind of you

1314
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,240
know sort of comical in a way to

1315
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,920
to watch this and you know there was

1316
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,240
some tear shed and but i'll tell you

1317
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:54,960
they got a standing ovation um it was

1318
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,839
the most fringe topic of the conference

1319
00:47:03,109 --> 00:46:59,920
and they had a standing ovation

1320
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:03,119
so it kind of goes to show what

1321
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:06,800
what people are people want

1322
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:08,960
some people want to believe so badly i

1323
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:12,000
remember that i had a person i won't

1324
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,839
give more detail on that but came up to

1325
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:15,359
me in arizona grabbed me by the

1326
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,440
shoulders and shook me

1327
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:19,440
and was going you have to believe that

1328
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:21,760
i've been abducted you ha and was

1329
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:24,640
totally you know crying and about an

1330
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,319
inch from my face and i was like i you

1331
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:28,319
know i had to finally say and tony you

1332
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,680
know passed this person off to me as if

1333
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,760
they went to him for us so thanks danny

1334
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,200
but anyway uh

1335
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:37,200
i said you know i i believe that you

1336
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:39,680
believe that happened you know so

1337
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,079
you know give you a little bit of uh

1338
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:43,760
relax a little bit i believe that you

1339
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:46,079
believe that happened but you know the

1340
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:50,079
the the almost fanaticism of some people

1341
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,319
it's like the theory that they're gonna

1342
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,280
be here to save us you know that's just

1343
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:57,200
i mean you just can't buy into that it's

1344
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,800
a phenomenal that's happening we're

1345
00:48:03,430 --> 00:48:00,800
investigating it but you know when it

1346
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:03,440
comes to hybrids and

1347
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,720
um

1348
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:07,520
you know abduction i have a hard time

1349
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,440
wrapping my mind around but it could be

1350
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:11,359
happening it's just very hard to prove

1351
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:12,880
it's like a lot of things you have some

1352
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,480
really good stories some very

1353
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:16,640
interesting stories but they're still

1354
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,920
stories usually you don't have any

1355
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:19,359
physical evidence you don't have a

1356
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,680
neighbor that saw it sometimes you do

1357
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:23,119
but it's just

1358
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,480
it's tough to get my

1359
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:26,160
you know just trying to figure out what

1360
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,960
ufos are i try not to branch off into

1361
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:30,319
all the other things that are going on

1362
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:32,240
because it's too distracting and it's

1363
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,760
less and less evidence the further you

1364
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:35,280
get away from just trying to figure out

1365
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:37,359
what's flying around the sky

1366
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:40,000
so i try to focus on that but um when it

1367
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:41,599
comes to a lot of the you know the

1368
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,640
spiritual side of it the uh

1369
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:46,640
the palladians and the reptilians and

1370
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:48,480
all of that i just i don't buy into that

1371
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:52,319
i really don't well i i was on the fence

1372
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:54,640
uh there are some cases that i think are

1373
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:56,960
very convincing but i was on the fence

1374
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,280
about you know abductions in general at

1375
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:01,200
first you know then

1376
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,880
um at first i didn't think it was

1377
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:05,040
happening at all and then i thought well

1378
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:08,400
you know if ufos are here and you know

1379
00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:10,960
and if it's a possibility that at least

1380
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:13,040
some of them are extraterrestrial

1381
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:14,720
i could see that something could be

1382
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,880
happening or at least they'd be you know

1383
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,319
doing some research while they're here

1384
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,480
they wouldn't just fly over and fly back

1385
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,839
you know i don't think

1386
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:23,599
unless unless that's the way they want

1387
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,720
to observe

1388
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:26,640
but uh so yeah i think that it's

1389
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:28,720
possible that something's happening but

1390
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:31,200
um and that some things have happened to

1391
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,400
some people

1392
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,800
yeah that being said i mean i

1393
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:37,200
i know travis walton i've talked to him

1394
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,880
several times

1395
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:40,880
i've talked to him personally

1396
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:44,800
and i i believe his story i mean i think

1397
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:46,880
that something extraordinary happened

1398
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:49,040
there um all the people even the guys

1399
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:50,000
that were with him that didn't want to

1400
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:51,359
talk have all come forward they've all

1401
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:52,800
collaborate collaborated everybody's

1402
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:53,920
story

1403
00:49:57,750 --> 00:49:56,079
um and it's very interesting because you

1404
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:57,760
know these guys were all up for murder

1405
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,119
for about four or five days because they

1406
00:50:01,510 --> 00:50:00,800
thought they'd killed travis yeah that

1407
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,520
whole

1408
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,000
everything about that story is backed up

1409
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,160
by evidence and even in the great movie

1410
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:08,880
that uh jennifer stein did called travis

1411
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:11,440
you know the fact that the rings of the

1412
00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:14,480
tree rings facing the the event where

1413
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:15,280
that

1414
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,640
i guess it was some type of radio

1415
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:18,240
activity where the ship came down it's

1416
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:19,440
that

1417
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:29,760
showed the same thing was in turbinal

1418
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:32,079
it the tree rings accelerated towards

1419
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,280
radiation

1420
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:35,119
so there are cases like that betty and

1421
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:36,400
barney hill

1422
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,359
you know

1423
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:39,280
not sure about that that seems pretty

1424
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,280
fascinating too so there are like you

1425
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,720
said there are some cases that make you

1426
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,480
go wow it's just like this whole

1427
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,559
phenomena you know you get some of these

1428
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,480
cases if they're true they're so strange

1429
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:50,400
that it kind of makes sense that there

1430
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:53,040
is an advanced civilization visiting us

1431
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,880
like i think carl sagan or maybe

1432
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,240
authority clark said it would look like

1433
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,319
magic and that's exactly what some of

1434
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:00,880
these cases like what the heck that just

1435
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:03,040
sounds so strange but it kind of makes

1436
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:05,040
sense if it's down strange because it's

1437
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:07,599
alien or at least it's non-terrestrial

1438
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,559
so

1439
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,240
that's a conundrum now you're bringing

1440
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,559
me back to the uh unacknowledged movie

1441
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,640
that stephen greer

1442
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:16,800
had and that is uh he mentions carl

1443
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,680
sagan now carl sagan did have some

1444
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:21,040
interest in

1445
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,240
possible visitation early on you know

1446
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:25,680
there's an article

1447
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:27,680
i have on my website somewhere that he

1448
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,720
wrote

1449
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:30,720
in his younger years but according to

1450
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:33,119
stephen greer in that movie he says that

1451
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:36,240
he was blackmailed and threatened to

1452
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,440
never talk about ufos and i want to know

1453
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:41,200
where's the proof of that i want to know

1454
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:43,760
where stephen greer got that

1455
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:46,400
yeah the the only thing that i

1456
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:48,240
that i know from

1457
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:51,760
following the whole sagan saga um is

1458
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:54,960
that he was very pro-ufo and then he

1459
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:57,359
totally discounted it so something

1460
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:58,800
changed his mind he kind of did the

1461
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,520
opposite of heineken but he did have a

1462
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:03,359
boy he was very open he talked about it

1463
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:05,119
and then towards the end he was really

1464
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:08,160
negative he was very dismissive

1465
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,119
so

1466
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,440
i don't know if what dr greer said is

1467
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:12,960
true but maybe

1468
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,480
somebody said look you're a high profile

1469
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,640
guy you got to tone this down or at

1470
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,640
least give a you know start to

1471
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,480
you know just like uh

1472
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:22,559
some of the guys that supposedly were in

1473
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,880
magic majestic 12 that were big

1474
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,480
debunkers you know and it turns out they

1475
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,559
have maybe had the secret life uh or

1476
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:30,240
some of these guys did have an interest

1477
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,400
in the subject but in public would just

1478
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:34,880
trash it tremendously and carl sagan did

1479
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:37,760
a flip so who knows what that was um i

1480
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:40,480
was a high-profile guy it's like uh

1481
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:43,520
you know neil tyson uh if if

1482
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:44,800
he came out and started talking about

1483
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:47,040
ufos being real you know what would be

1484
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,960
the ramifications so

1485
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:50,880
maybe this maybe somebody just nudged

1486
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,640
them a little bit said hey tone it down

1487
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:55,280
or stop talking about it um but i think

1488
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:56,800
once again it's a story yeah i think

1489
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,319
that's highly likely

1490
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:00,640
yeah what you're saying is uh seems like

1491
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,960
it makes the most sense of it all yeah

1492
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:04,480
because he did change his tune you just

1493
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:06,800
have to wonder why it's not like he got

1494
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,200
definitive proof that it wasn't true um

1495
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,880
because the more you dig just like what

1496
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:12,960
happened to heineck after socorro and i

1497
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:15,280
think the swamp gas case he started

1498
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:17,200
going well this is just it's very

1499
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,119
fascinating there's something to this

1500
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,359
and so uh

1501
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:23,040
in the really good cases there's

1502
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:25,040
something that's very elusive but it

1503
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:27,440
keeps you going because it it's very

1504
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:29,599
strange and maybe there's circumstantial

1505
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,760
evidence or radioactivity or whatever

1506
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:33,599
the case may be that makes you go

1507
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,520
that's a very unusual event and the fact

1508
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,440
that x number of people saw it and

1509
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,599
there's this evidence left behind

1510
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,280
then you have these things that kind of

1511
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,200
you know like i said they're very

1512
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:45,760
strange very peculiar but trying to get

1513
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:47,520
a grasp on what's going on has been the

1514
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:49,920
crux of ufology ever since we first

1515
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,359
started doing this

1516
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:53,280
i know you're familiar with the site the

1517
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,839
angry ufologist

1518
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,680
yep and uh because you and i are both

1519
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:59,520
members on their facebook page that's

1520
00:54:02,950 --> 00:54:00,800
the reason i know

1521
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,960
um but anyway someone in the chat room

1522
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,119
brought this up and i know he has a uh

1523
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,280
he has an article about it and that is

1524
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:09,359
uh someone wanted us to talk about the

1525
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,079
black knight satellite do you follow

1526
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:14,319
have you followed any of that

1527
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:15,839
as far as i can tell the black knight

1528
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,240
satellite is actually a heat shield that

1529
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,240
came off that's been

1530
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,319
definitely uh

1531
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,079
you know there is a timeline that shows

1532
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:26,160
that this heat shield this thermal type

1533
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:28,559
blanket came off and is in space and it

1534
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,440
has

1535
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:31,920
it looks really strange but it's a

1536
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,359
it's because of the material and the way

1537
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,760
it's photographed i think that there is

1538
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:37,680
no black knight satellite i think it is

1539
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,359
some type of debris

1540
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:41,839
um like a thermal heat shield from one

1541
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,680
of the launches

1542
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:45,680
because if

1543
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:51,349
earth-based telescopes would be able to

1544
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,440
zoom in on that thing and the fact that

1545
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,520
they keep showing up in nasa images

1546
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:57,040
they're not trying to hide it i mean the

1547
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,319
thing has been floating around for a

1548
00:55:02,150 --> 00:55:00,559
while i think it's a

1549
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:02,160
it's what they said it was a thermal

1550
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:03,680
heat shield

1551
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:06,800
well um there's a crazy amount

1552
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,000
of uh

1553
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,559
there's about a half a million

1554
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:12,640
species uh pieces of space junk out

1555
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:16,160
there you know just orbiting our earth

1556
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:17,760
which uh which is pretty dangerous for

1557
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,640
ufos to come in you know

1558
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:22,319
yeah they i think they

1559
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,150
if you you know if you follow the us's

1560
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:30,000
underwater submerged objects the water

1561
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:32,000
doesn't seem to affect them at all so if

1562
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,880
they're

1563
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:34,960
in and that's part of the propulsion you

1564
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:36,319
know i think they surround themselves

1565
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:38,400
with some type of static shell or shield

1566
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:40,480
that enables them to pass through

1567
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,440
anything without any resistance you know

1568
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,280
one of the things that always baffles me

1569
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:46,720
about

1570
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:49,200
these people that witness a ufo just all

1571
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:50,960
of a sudden shooting off like really

1572
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:53,760
fast is there's no breaking of the sound

1573
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:56,640
barrier would that also cover that with

1574
00:56:01,750 --> 00:55:58,480
what you're talking about

1575
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:01,760
well yeah i mean from you know from the

1576
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:03,680
paper that the gentleman wrote after

1577
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:06,319
witnessing rey's film um with the bema

1578
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:08,559
head it's been shown in the lab that if

1579
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:11,359
you shoot energy it could be plasma or

1580
00:56:14,789 --> 00:56:13,040
other type of energy out in front of a

1581
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,799
craft it does push the air out of the

1582
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,559
way so then you're traveling through

1583
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:18,240
that vacuum you're not breaking the

1584
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:19,520
sound barrier because the air has been

1585
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:20,720
pushed away

1586
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:23,119
i could you know that's very feasible um

1587
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:24,960
and all our craft now our shuttle and

1588
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:26,720
everything has those long nose cones on

1589
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,079
it that's shooting energy out in front

1590
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:30,640
of it to place displace the air so that

1591
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:32,960
you have much more efficient travel when

1592
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:34,640
you don't have to churn through the

1593
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:36,559
atmosphere but

1594
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:38,079
anything that's gotten here from

1595
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:40,160
somewhere else would have the ability to

1596
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:42,400
have figured all that out i mean the one

1597
00:56:47,349 --> 00:56:44,960
thing that i think several of us agree

1598
00:56:49,430 --> 00:56:47,359
on that ray has pointed out is

1599
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:49,440
if they're manipulating gravity which i

1600
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:50,880
think that's what they're doing then

1601
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:53,119
they can manipulate time and space and

1602
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:54,480
that would explain a lot of the bizarre

1603
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,640
behavior you know being able to to shoot

1604
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,960
across the sky in less than a second

1605
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,480
well if they have some type of mini

1606
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:02,319
wormhole or something that's enabling

1607
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:04,160
them to manipulate gravity then all

1608
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:05,760
these things are possible it would just

1609
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:09,040
be amazing to watch the energy required

1610
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:11,920
to do this stuff they do is there and

1611
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:13,119
we're finding out a lot more about

1612
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:15,040
gravitational waves and you know the

1613
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,720
fact that there's no such thing as empty

1614
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:19,119
space you have this uh

1615
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,240
quantum fluctuation where particles

1616
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:24,319
blink in and out of existence which we

1617
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:25,839
never thought happened before but

1618
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,280
there's no such thing as empty states

1619
00:57:31,190 --> 00:57:29,200
it's filled with quirks and things that

1620
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:31,200
come in in existence and go out of

1621
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:33,200
existence now they're saying that maybe

1622
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,640
that's how the universe started there

1623
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,720
was nothing but out of nothing always

1624
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:38,880
comes something and so from absolutely

1625
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,119
nothing the universe was born which is

1626
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:43,200
hard for humans to get their head around

1627
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:44,480
but

1628
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:45,599
it's pretty interesting the more we

1629
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:47,599
learn about quantum physics and physics

1630
00:57:50,549 --> 00:57:49,200
in general

1631
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,559
all these things are possible we just

1632
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,960
haven't figured them out yet but if if a

1633
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:55,040
civilization is 500 years ahead of us

1634
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:56,960
it's gonna look one way but if it's five

1635
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:58,400
thousand five hundred thousand years

1636
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,599
ahead of us

1637
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:01,040
it's going to look like magic it's going

1638
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:01,920
to be

1639
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:04,000
something that even if one crashed in

1640
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,280
the desert in 1947

1641
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,680
and we broke it apart we still probably

1642
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:11,280
wouldn't know what the heck it was or

1643
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,880
how it worked

1644
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,559
all right you know where i i've been

1645
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:16,160
getting in the chat room people are a

1646
00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:17,520
little disappointed that we're not going

1647
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:24,230
okay they came here for it

1648
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,240
well you know they're the angry

1649
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:28,880
ufologists and people they've had

1650
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,640
there's some good points made about you

1651
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:32,559
know where's the science and the science

1652
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,359
is not being done in a lot of cases

1653
00:58:40,549 --> 00:58:37,680
a lot of the sensational stuff that's up

1654
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:40,559
on social media now is sensational it

1655
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,920
doesn't have any proof it doesn't have

1656
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:43,440
any evidence but it sounds great hey we

1657
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:45,440
had a three-fingered

1658
00:58:49,349 --> 00:58:47,440
alien from peru

1659
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,359
sure you do you know it's it's the kind

1660
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,839
of thing that people want to have to be

1661
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,240
real want to have that tangible evidence

1662
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:56,240
but when you dig into stories like that

1663
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:58,799
man it all falls apart it's just

1664
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,079
what is the status there's a lot of

1665
00:59:03,910 --> 00:59:02,000
grief about that yeah what is the status

1666
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,920
of that um i haven't heard anything

1667
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:05,440
about it lately

1668
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,599
the um

1669
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:09,599
from what i've seen is in the first

1670
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:12,799
thing i asked asked ray about it and he

1671
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,480
said well that culture didn't use

1672
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:16,240
plaster in that time frame you know he

1673
00:59:20,069 --> 00:59:18,319
knew that right away and that's come up

1674
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:20,079
and the fact that the hand is missing

1675
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:21,520
certain bones it wouldn't even function

1676
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:23,599
the way the x-rays show

1677
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:26,240
another guy pointed out that in 97 one

1678
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:29,280
of these same mummies was presented

1679
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,760
with its head up and the new mummy is

1680
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:33,839
the same one but it's head is down he

1681
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:35,680
said probably in shame

1682
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,559
for being presented as an alien but it's

1683
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:40,319
even the science the real scientist

1684
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:42,480
there said it's it's it's theft there's

1685
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:44,640
graveyard theft you've taken bones that

1686
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:46,640
are going to carbonate to that bright

1687
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,040
time frame but you've taken graves and

1688
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:51,359
you've reconstructed bones in such a way

1689
00:59:55,349 --> 00:59:53,440
to make it look anomalous and and then

1690
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:55,359
you covered it in plaster to muddy

1691
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:57,920
everything up else up

1692
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:59,520
everything i've seen from that case

1693
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:00,480
because i

1694
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,880
the scientists and doctors that those

1695
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,400
guys were promoting

1696
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:06,640
i looked into the colleges and the

1697
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,839
scientific

1698
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:09,599
institutions and none of them existed i

1699
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:11,119
couldn't find anything on google for

1700
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:12,880
half these scientists i couldn't find

1701
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:15,040
them but the

1702
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:16,960
you know the real people that are the

1703
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,119
real scientists in nazca that are the

1704
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,280
archaeologists and all they are saying

1705
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,680
that it's it's it's grave robbery

1706
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:25,680
there's nothing true about it so i

1707
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,480
haven't seen one shred of evidence out

1708
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:30,000
of this whole thing

1709
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,319
that shows me that it's nothing but you

1710
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:34,559
know cobbled together bones from the

1711
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,119
poor people whose graves have been taken

1712
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:39,599
out it's just from day one i didn't

1713
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:41,200
believe it and i still don't believe it

1714
01:00:44,069 --> 01:00:42,559
and there's nothing that's come out that

1715
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,079
shows me there's anything anomalous

1716
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,319
about it but hey for you know

1717
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:48,400
50 bucks maybe you can watch all the

1718
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:49,599
videos

1719
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:51,440
it's just another it's just another

1720
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:54,000
hopefully not a roswell slide fiasco

1721
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:55,440
again

1722
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:57,839
yeah yeah um well

1723
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:00,160
there's uh something i read about it

1724
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:02,319
they're saying that's not plaster it's

1725
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:04,000
some type of uh

1726
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:06,400
um oxidation that happens naturally in

1727
01:01:11,190 --> 01:01:08,640
the you know the dry area where they're

1728
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:11,200
from and all that yeah i don't buy that

1729
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:12,799
yeah yeah

1730
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:14,799
uniform i had mentioned in the beginning

1731
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:17,040
if it was indeed plaster you know being

1732
01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:19,760
in the field that i'm in you know if

1733
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:22,160
plaster is like 90 100 years old it

1734
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:25,280
yellows it uh darkens and there's a

1735
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,839
patina that you know becomes like a

1736
01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:29,760
smooth patina and yellows that's what

1737
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:31,200
happens to plaster

1738
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:32,880
right so this could have been plastered

1739
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:34,000
recently

1740
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:36,559
it sure looked like it if it was plaster

1741
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:38,160
or not this other substance they were

1742
01:01:42,710 --> 01:01:39,520
talking about

1743
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:42,720
but um so that that seemed like it might

1744
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,359
be another money scheme also

1745
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:48,000
um i've read somewhere where

1746
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:48,960
they

1747
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:53,040
bodies way back

1748
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:54,960
you know like um

1749
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:56,559
several hundred years ago or a hundred

1750
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:58,000
years ago or something like that they

1751
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,720
would

1752
01:02:02,309 --> 01:02:00,799
exhume and do something with them and

1753
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:02,319
you know put them back which i think is

1754
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:03,839
really bizarre i don't know if that's

1755
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:05,200
true or not

1756
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:06,960
yeah there's uh you know if you go back

1757
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:08,720
in time people used to think they would

1758
01:02:13,190 --> 01:02:11,280
find thigh bones from giants and you

1759
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,200
know it was dinosaur bones

1760
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:15,119
so people have all kinds of then you had

1761
01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:17,440
the i can't remember the the something

1762
01:02:21,670 --> 01:02:19,839
man but supposedly an unearthed giant

1763
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:21,680
that turned out to be a statue

1764
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:23,920
um so you know

1765
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:25,200
and

1766
01:02:29,030 --> 01:02:26,400
it's just

1767
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:29,040
the whole thing just

1768
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:31,280
it smells you know it just smells bad

1769
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:32,880
that's the best way i can put it without

1770
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:35,680
getting it just it it messes everything

1771
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:37,920
else up it once they'll find out that

1772
01:02:43,030 --> 01:02:40,319
it's all not real and it's fake it's

1773
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:43,040
just another blow to ufology so you know

1774
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:45,440
it seems like

1775
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:46,960
really good researchers have to separate

1776
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:49,280
themselves do the science

1777
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:51,359
you just can't get on board with any of

1778
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:52,720
these things especially if they're

1779
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:54,240
remote events

1780
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,880
there's no way to tell if they're real

1781
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,960
the roswell slide when that came out i

1782
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,480
asked thump kerry if i could look at the

1783
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:02,559
slide i would help them release it

1784
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:04,160
and if i'd gotten a look at it i

1785
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:06,000
probably could have at least satisfied

1786
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:07,760
myself because the cursory look at that

1787
01:03:11,270 --> 01:03:09,359
picture shows you that it's nothing

1788
01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:11,280
nothing special but

1789
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,880
yeah this is the way it is people jump

1790
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:14,880
on the bandwagon promote something uh

1791
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,400
want to be the first person to get out

1792
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:18,720
the true alien or a piece of metal from

1793
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:21,920
a craft or whatever but you know um

1794
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:23,520
it's just

1795
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:25,599
most of it is a hoax most of it is for

1796
01:03:30,230 --> 01:03:27,520
the money most of it is for you know the

1797
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:30,240
bells and whistles that come with being

1798
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:32,319
out in the public maybe famous for a

1799
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:34,480
while you're 15 minutes of fame

1800
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:36,160
it's just not you know as i've said

1801
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:37,920
before if you get into ufology be rich

1802
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,200
and famous you're going to be poor and

1803
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:41,520
unknown because it doesn't pay you

1804
01:03:44,710 --> 01:03:43,039
it's a passion that we have trying to

1805
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:44,720
find the truth because it's all out of

1806
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,559
pocket i mean

1807
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:49,200
you know the shows we do are great but

1808
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:50,799
you know it's a free trip basically for

1809
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,799
us and it gives us exposure it lets us

1810
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,480
talk um

1811
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,240
we're on nasa's unexplained files too

1812
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:58,319
but that show just vanished i don't know

1813
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,440
what happened to that show it showed

1814
01:04:02,950 --> 01:04:01,119
about three episodes and then

1815
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:02,960
disappeared from tv because we had some

1816
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:05,599
really good discussions on that one uh

1817
01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:07,520
but you know it's

1818
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,039
it's good that we have podcasts like

1819
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:11,280
this to kind of dig down and talk about

1820
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:12,720
stuff because uh

1821
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:16,079
i can feel the hate mail coming now man

1822
01:04:21,670 --> 01:04:18,960
yeah i see at least one down a thumbs

1823
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,680
down to the show so far okay which isn't

1824
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:23,520
too bad um

1825
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,359
so yeah you know

1826
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:27,119
here's here's a good point right here

1827
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:30,079
you just said that for these shows you

1828
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:32,000
actually don't get paid you just get

1829
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:34,799
like free expenses and travel is that

1830
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:36,880
really what it boils down to um there's

1831
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:39,119
a little bit of a

1832
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,400
kind of a base

1833
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:42,480
some that's very nominal you end up

1834
01:04:46,870 --> 01:04:45,599
spending it for food and usually alcohol

1835
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:46,880
but

1836
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:49,039
it's you know it's a it's a it's usually

1837
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:50,559
a trip um

1838
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:52,000
you know we were going to speak at an

1839
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:53,839
event later this year but it turns out

1840
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:55,280
they didn't have good funds and i just

1841
01:04:58,870 --> 01:04:57,280
couldn't afford to fly out to do it and

1842
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:58,880
so we kind of had to back out of that

1843
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:00,720
one which is unfortunate i think it's

1844
01:05:04,870 --> 01:05:03,440
going to be a good event out in wyoming

1845
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:04,880
but um

1846
01:05:09,510 --> 01:05:07,680
yeah you know we're

1847
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:09,520
we're going to be on the mufon cruise in

1848
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,920
january with stanton and kathleen martin

1849
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:13,520
which is going to be good it's good to

1850
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:15,039
get like-minded people away from

1851
01:05:18,390 --> 01:05:17,119
everything you know on the boat the good

1852
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:18,400
thing is you're on a boat away from

1853
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:19,760
everybody the bad thing is you're on a

1854
01:05:23,029 --> 01:05:21,760
boat and you're stuck with everybody in

1855
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:23,039
case you don't like

1856
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:24,319
your crewmates

1857
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:28,319
but um yeah it's just um

1858
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:32,319
it's everybody has their own opinion and

1859
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:34,559
i guess the best thing i can say is uh

1860
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:36,160
you know

1861
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:37,280
have a good idea of what you're

1862
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:38,400
presenting and you're talking about

1863
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:40,319
before you throw it out there because if

1864
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:41,119
you're

1865
01:05:44,950 --> 01:05:42,960
if you throw something out there and it

1866
01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:44,960
turns out to be 100 wrong then your

1867
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:47,119
credibility is probably shot at that

1868
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:48,720
point and there's certain people that we

1869
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,720
don't even have to mention that

1870
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:51,839
you know when you hear something from

1871
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:57,589
you know

1872
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,760
someone is asking

1873
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:01,680
what your thoughts are

1874
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:04,559
on tom delong and i guess we could cover

1875
01:06:10,230 --> 01:06:08,000
that uh lightly if you'd like to

1876
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:10,240
i don't know tom i think he's trying to

1877
01:06:16,950 --> 01:06:14,559
do the right thing um but i've seen

1878
01:06:19,029 --> 01:06:16,960
promises of of

1879
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,039
of of

1880
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:21,119
revelations that haven't come out uh

1881
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,400
there's been a couple of books of

1882
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:24,640
fiction i i really don't know the guy so

1883
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:27,680
i can't really say i i think he's trying

1884
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:30,960
to do and use the the money that he has

1885
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:34,000
to uh to find out things but once again

1886
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:36,079
he could be you know he's he's gotten

1887
01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:37,520
these interviews he's talked to people

1888
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,240
but

1889
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:40,000
they could be feeding him disinformation

1890
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:41,280
they could be doing the same thing that

1891
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:44,720
dottie did with uh linda melton howe and

1892
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:46,559
you know it could be going down the same

1893
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:48,240
path again because he's kind of new to

1894
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:49,200
the field

1895
01:06:52,950 --> 01:06:51,599
he might be a little trusting and

1896
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:52,960
somebody can jump on that go i'm going

1897
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:54,240
to take this guy down the rabbit hole

1898
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:56,480
again just like we did with the mj12

1899
01:06:59,190 --> 01:06:57,520
papers

1900
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:59,200
so i think his heart's in the right

1901
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,119
place i just

1902
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,280
i think you know money helps to get

1903
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:05,280
things done but i don't know how much

1904
01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:08,400
he's actually researching and digging in

1905
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:10,000
right so seems like a nice guy seems

1906
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:12,880
like a good guy yeah yeah uh corey good

1907
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:14,000
someone wanted to know what your

1908
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:15,920
thoughts were on corey goode now wasn't

1909
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:18,720
he at the uh was he yeah

1910
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,880
yeah i just um

1911
01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:22,799
you know he seemed like a nice guy he

1912
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:25,200
seemed well spoken i talked to a lot of

1913
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:26,799
the guys there that were

1914
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,880
talking about the secret space program

1915
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:30,640
well-spoken guys some of them have

1916
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:32,400
multiple phds

1917
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:33,920
it's just that the things they're

1918
01:07:39,029 --> 01:07:36,480
talking about cannot be verified in any

1919
01:07:40,710 --> 01:07:39,039
way shape or form the only verification

1920
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,720
is from the other people that say they

1921
01:07:43,349 --> 01:07:42,400
were part of the secret space program

1922
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:43,359
also

1923
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:44,960
i haven't really seen

1924
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:46,720
documentation you know if we were going

1925
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:49,599
to mars multiple times there's so many

1926
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:51,280
astronomers that you know watched the

1927
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,720
moon landing i think they'd be able to

1928
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:54,720
track a craft that was heading out

1929
01:07:58,470 --> 01:07:57,039
towards mars or at least see it on the

1930
01:08:00,069 --> 01:07:58,480
way um

1931
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,079
i just don't think the technology is

1932
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:01,839
there i think it's

1933
01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:04,160
those are good stories but i i don't see

1934
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:05,599
any way to back them up i don't see any

1935
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,000
way to prove that that actually happened

1936
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,400
a lot of the content is just

1937
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:12,720
with age regression and

1938
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:15,200
dinosaurs on mars and

1939
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,440
ross perot was part of the jump team

1940
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,440
barack obama under a different name was

1941
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:21,359
part of the jump team and they were

1942
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:23,199
talking to um

1943
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:25,359
howard hughes who's

1944
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:27,199
well for all i know has been dead for 20

1945
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:28,319
or 30 years

1946
01:08:32,149 --> 01:08:29,920
so um

1947
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:32,159
when these events happen but uh

1948
01:08:35,269 --> 01:08:33,120
you know

1949
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:35,279
i don't attack the people because i

1950
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,679
think they're you know some a lot of

1951
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:39,120
them are good people but the message or

1952
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,880
the story they're telling there's no way

1953
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:42,400
to back it up there's no way to verify

1954
01:08:46,229 --> 01:08:44,159
it so it's it's just a tale that's all

1955
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:46,239
it is it's like uh sitting around the

1956
01:08:49,349 --> 01:08:47,920
campfire and telling ghost stories and

1957
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:49,359
horror stories

1958
01:08:52,550 --> 01:08:51,040
right right

1959
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:52,560
um

1960
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:54,080
someone says if

1961
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:55,600
we're taking calls if someone wants to

1962
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:58,960
call in and uh ask a question

1963
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:00,640
or just say

1964
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:03,600
uh you know a topic that you want us to

1965
01:09:06,149 --> 01:09:04,640
discuss

1966
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:06,159
as far uh if you think it's

1967
01:09:10,669 --> 01:09:09,040
controversial that number 603

1968
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:10,679
967

1969
01:09:14,650 --> 01:09:12,640
403 oh we already have someone

1970
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:14,660
threatening to call in and crush you

1971
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:17,679
[Laughter]

1972
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:18,880
bring it

1973
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:23,600
okay uh i

1974
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:26,000
there's a someone wanted to

1975
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:27,679
bring up a topic about art belinda

1976
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,279
molten howell richard hoagland remote

1977
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:31,359
viewing um i don't know if that's really

1978
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:32,560
a topic

1979
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,679
you know would really uh you know i know

1980
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:37,920
uh art is retired now

1981
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:40,799
yeah and linda is um

1982
01:09:45,269 --> 01:09:42,799
still out there talking uh richard

1983
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:45,279
hoagland still got his um enterprise

1984
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:47,600
mission site remote viewing i talked to

1985
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:49,279
joe mcconnell the number one remote

1986
01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:52,000
viewer i've actually had it successfully

1987
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,199
worked for me

1988
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:55,760
um i load the techniques i've done the

1989
01:09:59,750 --> 01:09:58,320
monroe uh hemisync tapes which give you

1990
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:59,760
that

1991
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:02,000
two tones in each ear combined into one

1992
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:03,360
tone it makes you have out-of-body

1993
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:05,920
experiences and a little bit of um lucid

1994
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:08,159
dreaming but uh i believe remote viewing

1995
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:09,520
is a real thing that worked and

1996
01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:16,149
hang on just a minute if you would uh we

1997
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:19,120
have a caller um caller thanks so much

1998
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:21,280
for uh calling in and please uh give

1999
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,480
your

2000
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,960
up uh the computer's not taking them

2001
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:26,560
something's happening here

2002
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:28,320
all right and sorry to interrupt uh

2003
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:35,110
caller can you hear me

2004
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:37,040
okay we may be having an issue with this

2005
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:39,280
uh it's a join call but

2006
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:41,679
how about you ben can you hear me

2007
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:44,000
i can hear you okay

2008
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,520
because the screen's kind of gone blank

2009
01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:47,360
here all right yeah i'm getting the

2010
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,239
spool

2011
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:50,320
yeah that's what i'm getting yeah

2012
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:53,920
all right um so we'll continue on um i

2013
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:56,400
guess i'll try to hang that up or you

2014
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,719
know i better not try anything because

2015
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:01,040
anything can happen at this point

2016
01:11:04,149 --> 01:11:02,080
um

2017
01:11:05,990 --> 01:11:04,159
so you can go ahead and continue on if

2018
01:11:07,910 --> 01:11:06,000
you know what you were uh talking about

2019
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:07,920
yeah i was just gonna say

2020
01:11:12,149 --> 01:11:10,480
if you ever get the the

2021
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,159
special version of the men who stare at

2022
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:14,400
goats with george clooney uh stubblebine

2023
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,920
and a lot of the remote viewing guys

2024
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:17,520
have some really interesting clips at

2025
01:11:21,990 --> 01:11:19,679
the end of that um where she basically

2026
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:22,000
says you know 90 of that movie is

2027
01:11:24,709 --> 01:11:23,120
actually true

2028
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:24,719
but i've read all the books i've seen

2029
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:27,040
all the studies um i think remote

2030
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:28,800
viewing is just a way that your

2031
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:30,320
perception is going to leave your body

2032
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:31,600
and witness things

2033
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:34,400
in time and space you know if

2034
01:11:38,550 --> 01:11:36,880
if we're all from a big bang or from one

2035
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,560
single source then maybe we're all still

2036
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:40,320
connected in a way that you know

2037
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:43,600
supersedes uh speed of light and and

2038
01:11:46,870 --> 01:11:45,360
you know it's like the quantum

2039
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:46,880
entanglement you know you can have an

2040
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:48,400
event on the other side of the universe

2041
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:50,320
it happens and there's a reaction on

2042
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,280
this side of the universe

2043
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,440
instantaneously and that's been proven

2044
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:55,760
there's been studies about that so

2045
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:58,159
it's uh i wouldn't discount it you know

2046
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,760
esp and things like that are probably

2047
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:01,360
just a function of the mind and the

2048
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:02,880
psyche that we just haven't discovered

2049
01:12:05,270 --> 01:12:03,840
yet that i don't think they're

2050
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:05,280
paranormal they're just something that

2051
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:07,040
we can do that we haven't really tapped

2052
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:09,199
into yet because we're too busy living

2053
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:10,640
in the material world

2054
01:12:14,070 --> 01:12:12,400
yeah i had uh

2055
01:12:17,350 --> 01:12:14,080
the other show i do the everything else

2056
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:17,360
show i had edward edwin c may on who was

2057
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:18,480
involved

2058
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:21,520
in uh in the stargate project

2059
01:12:25,270 --> 01:12:23,440
and remote viewing and all that very

2060
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:25,280
very it is fascinating

2061
01:12:31,350 --> 01:12:28,239
yeah grill flame uh yeah it's uh

2062
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:31,360
mcconnell still he uh i think he married

2063
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,920
robert murrow's wife robert rowe passed

2064
01:12:37,590 --> 01:12:35,840
away at the monroe institute in favor of

2065
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,600
virginia but that's where they sent you

2066
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,440
know these guys to train using that

2067
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:40,640
hemisink

2068
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,719
technique to uh kind of get in the you

2069
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:44,400
know um

2070
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:49,430
deprivation mode where you're not

2071
01:12:53,189 --> 01:12:51,280
feeling yeah i can't remember that but

2072
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:53,199
you're you know your eyes are covered

2073
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:54,880
your ears are covered you don't feel

2074
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:56,880
anything and then i think they used to

2075
01:13:01,430 --> 01:12:59,520
do tanks with water back in the day

2076
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,440
but uh saline

2077
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:03,280
yeah you get you get into that mode

2078
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:05,040
without you know you'll have some

2079
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,480
strange experiences when you don't have

2080
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:09,040
any input your brain will start

2081
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:11,679
creating input or or something else

2082
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:13,840
happens altogether um it's something

2083
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,800
it's one of those things that if you

2084
01:13:17,430 --> 01:13:16,320
haven't tried it you know give it a try

2085
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:17,440
it's very interesting i mean you can

2086
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:18,880
calm your mind

2087
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:21,120
and experience uh this kind of flow

2088
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:21,840
where

2089
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:23,760
in sports we call it being in the zone

2090
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:25,199
where you're not thinking about anything

2091
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,520
if you like i play tennis and if i'm

2092
01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:29,360
hitting really really well

2093
01:13:32,470 --> 01:13:30,560
and i'm not thinking about it it

2094
01:13:34,390 --> 01:13:32,480
continues but as soon as i think man i'm

2095
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:34,400
hitting the ball great i'm out of the

2096
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:41,350
i did remote viewing successfully on a

2097
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:44,880
live uh a live radio show

2098
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:47,040
which was kind of fun i was just i just

2099
01:13:52,149 --> 01:13:48,880
kind of gave the first thing that i

2100
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:52,159
thought of and uh ended up being close

2101
01:13:56,229 --> 01:13:53,280
yeah

2102
01:13:58,790 --> 01:13:56,239
so it was uh what the uh the host of the

2103
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,800
radio show he had something on his desk

2104
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:01,120
and he asked he said

2105
01:14:06,229 --> 01:14:04,239
you know describe it and i said it looks

2106
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:06,239
something like a turtle and he said yes

2107
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,640
it's a hard hat so hey

2108
01:14:14,229 --> 01:14:11,520
i'm able to do that now close yeah

2109
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:14,239
close enough yeah

2110
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,480
so as far as the future of ufology where

2111
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:20,159
do you think it's headed you know we

2112
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:22,640
have technology coming in

2113
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:24,880
and it's a double-edged sword because

2114
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:27,920
you have uh you know cgi but you also

2115
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:28,800
have

2116
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:32,239
different ways to detect ufos and

2117
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,640
film ufos and all that so what do you

2118
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:36,640
think the future is going to be of you

2119
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:37,920
following it's

2120
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:39,280
it's going to be

2121
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:41,679
what ray did in the 70s that's coming

2122
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:44,480
around again but it's not new it's the

2123
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:46,880
instrumented study of ufos you need a

2124
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:49,280
magnetometer or gravity and gravity grab

2125
01:14:54,830 --> 01:14:51,760
a meter you need the devices that record

2126
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:54,840
magnetic waves electromagnetic

2127
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:57,840
frequencies um you know emp

2128
01:15:02,709 --> 01:14:59,600
you need all the things that will give

2129
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:02,719
you more data than just footage and

2130
01:15:07,030 --> 01:15:04,800
you know filming more in the daytime

2131
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,040
catching these things

2132
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,600
with other devices so you can you know

2133
01:15:12,950 --> 01:15:11,199
if they change directions you have a

2134
01:15:14,790 --> 01:15:12,960
reading on the magnetometer that that

2135
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:14,800
spikes showing you know that something

2136
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:16,000
happened there's something going on with

2137
01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:18,239
propulsion it's somehow manipulating the

2138
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:20,880
magnetic waves or or you know space

2139
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:21,920
itself

2140
01:15:25,990 --> 01:15:24,320
um that's where any kind of answers are

2141
01:15:28,390 --> 01:15:26,000
going to come from not from just you

2142
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:28,400
know footage of something or lights in

2143
01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:29,920
the sky you need

2144
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:31,760
instrument studies you need high-end

2145
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:34,320
cameras high-speed cameras um and we

2146
01:15:37,910 --> 01:15:36,159
need to uh

2147
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,920
you know do this in the daytime don't go

2148
01:15:42,070 --> 01:15:39,360
out at night that's where you don't get

2149
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,080
that much data um anything at night is

2150
01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:43,760
going to look strange if that's what

2151
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:45,760
you're looking for it's it's the daytime

2152
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:48,080
footage and um

2153
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:49,679
you know our cell phones have a lot of

2154
01:15:53,189 --> 01:15:51,520
this on it it just doesn't have a great

2155
01:15:55,669 --> 01:15:53,199
range but most of them have

2156
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:55,679
electromagnetic sensors there's about

2157
01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:56,960
seven or eight sensors in your phone

2158
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:58,480
they'll do a lot of cool things give you

2159
01:16:01,590 --> 01:16:00,239
azimuth give you the flight trader

2160
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:01,600
program which tells you what's flying in

2161
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:03,040
the sky whether it's an airplane or

2162
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,040
satellite those are all tools that we

2163
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:06,800
keep on our phones so i think that the

2164
01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:10,560
future of ufology is scientifically

2165
01:16:14,470 --> 01:16:12,159
using instruments to study this

2166
01:16:16,070 --> 01:16:14,480
phenomena with um you know a better

2167
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:16,080
equipment better tech

2168
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:19,199
let's use it and uh you know go out and

2169
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:20,480
and see what we can catch that's what

2170
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:21,760
we're trying to do we're trying to catch

2171
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:23,920
our own data so that we can present

2172
01:16:27,590 --> 01:16:26,000
evidence that we call it ourselves we'll

2173
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:27,600
have to start out with the fact that we

2174
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:29,360
have to first of all prove it's not a

2175
01:16:32,229 --> 01:16:31,440
hoax or a cgi or whatever when somebody

2176
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:32,239
else

2177
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:34,960
submits something like that so

2178
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:36,640
i think the future is you know doing

2179
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:39,040
this more scientifically and getting to

2180
01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:42,000
the truth that way instead of

2181
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,560
this kind of sensationalistic

2182
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:47,040
way that ufology has gone in the last 10

2183
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:50,000
years right right yeah it's it's really

2184
01:16:54,149 --> 01:16:52,159
anyone's guess as far as

2185
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:54,159
you know the people that'll be

2186
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:55,920
you know taking our places over the

2187
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,679
years you know what

2188
01:17:00,630 --> 01:16:59,280
you know not necessarily someone doing a

2189
01:17:01,830 --> 01:17:00,640
show but someone doing the work you're

2190
01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:01,840
doing

2191
01:17:05,590 --> 01:17:03,679
you know it's hard to say

2192
01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:05,600
where that's going to go

2193
01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:07,520
yeah we need younger people

2194
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:09,920
definitely and i think that the way to

2195
01:17:14,070 --> 01:17:12,080
attract them is to have more

2196
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,080
you know like

2197
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:16,239
when tom carey and mr schmidt were at

2198
01:17:19,510 --> 01:17:17,760
the uh

2199
01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:19,520
american university where he had first

2200
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:21,760
announced the roswell picture but you

2201
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:24,960
know that was a free event um that

2202
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:27,520
tony and i were at and the place was

2203
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:29,600
packed i think it held about 150 people

2204
01:17:33,510 --> 01:17:31,440
but it was all students

2205
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:33,520
and they were fascinated and that's the

2206
01:17:37,669 --> 01:17:35,760
kind of things we need to do

2207
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:37,679
i know that you know paying for some of

2208
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:40,480
these events you have to charge to

2209
01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:42,880
to pay for your expenses but

2210
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,960
you know i've been trying to dig into

2211
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:46,480
having a presentation at american

2212
01:17:49,990 --> 01:17:48,159
university and places like that maybe

2213
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,000
some courses in school

2214
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:52,239
something to get the younger generations

2215
01:17:56,229 --> 01:17:54,400
involved in it because you know

2216
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:56,239
a lot of the

2217
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:57,600
guys that have been in this field a long

2218
01:18:02,390 --> 01:18:00,320
time or are fading away and um it's a

2219
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:02,400
shame because there's not a whole lot of

2220
01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:03,280
youth

2221
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:06,080
in this and we definitely need you know

2222
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:08,480
younger smarter people looking into this

2223
01:18:12,149 --> 01:18:10,480
uh in a way that they don't have a bias

2224
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:12,159
you just can't start out believing one

2225
01:18:14,550 --> 01:18:13,520
way or the other you got to have an open

2226
01:18:15,910 --> 01:18:14,560
mind and

2227
01:18:17,030 --> 01:18:15,920
let the science take you where it's

2228
01:18:19,189 --> 01:18:17,040
going to take you

2229
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:19,199
you know the only thing that

2230
01:18:23,910 --> 01:18:21,120
young people are getting more involved

2231
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:23,920
in as far as conferences and things like

2232
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:26,000
that is like comic cons and things like

2233
01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:26,800
that

2234
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:29,120
but i i talk to people across the board

2235
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:31,360
in all different types of

2236
01:18:35,669 --> 01:18:34,000
conferences and and things that people

2237
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:35,679
are involved in and they say the same

2238
01:18:38,470 --> 01:18:37,360
thing there's not enough young people

2239
01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:38,480
involved

2240
01:18:42,310 --> 01:18:40,480
you know yeah and i don't know what i

2241
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:42,320
don't know what

2242
01:18:45,189 --> 01:18:43,760
you know because when i was young i was

2243
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:45,199
fascinated with things like this but

2244
01:18:48,310 --> 01:18:46,880
there was no avenue there was no you

2245
01:18:49,990 --> 01:18:48,320
couldn't become an investigator there

2246
01:18:52,390 --> 01:18:50,000
was nothing to do i didn't i wasn't even

2247
01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:52,400
aware of nightcap or any of the kufos or

2248
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:55,040
anything back in the day but i think it

2249
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,040
all starts with uh you know when you're

2250
01:19:00,470 --> 01:18:59,440
in school if there's one class that just

2251
01:19:03,510 --> 01:19:00,480
maybe

2252
01:19:05,350 --> 01:19:03,520
talks about phenomena or anomalous you

2253
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:05,360
know something that gets your interest

2254
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:06,480
because that's where you're gonna catch

2255
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:08,239
people look how many people became

2256
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,880
scientists because of star trek right i

2257
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:12,719
mean i see guys on tv you know well i

2258
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,400
saw star trek i thought man i want to

2259
01:19:17,510 --> 01:19:16,080
study the planets and i want to do that

2260
01:19:19,030 --> 01:19:17,520
you know and then they became scientists

2261
01:19:20,630 --> 01:19:19,040
and i'm sure people did that because of

2262
01:19:22,709 --> 01:19:20,640
star wars and

2263
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:22,719
whatever you know i'm older so i'm

2264
01:19:29,270 --> 01:19:25,600
referencing really old stuff but

2265
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:29,280
you know sometimes uh media tv and now

2266
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:31,120
the the vast amount of media we have

2267
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:33,280
bombarded at us sometimes that's how you

2268
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:35,360
know you get caught but uh

2269
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:37,040
and get wrapped up into where you want

2270
01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:39,040
to actually spend some time doing it and

2271
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:40,480
studying it but

2272
01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:42,320
it's tough you know you have to have

2273
01:19:46,310 --> 01:19:44,239
that kind of interest in the unusual to

2274
01:19:47,990 --> 01:19:46,320
begin with um same with you know

2275
01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:48,000
paranormal ghost hunters you gotta you

2276
01:19:51,510 --> 01:19:49,840
know be interested in it think there

2277
01:19:53,510 --> 01:19:51,520
might be something to it not be scared

2278
01:19:56,470 --> 01:19:53,520
to walk into a dark building

2279
01:19:58,229 --> 01:19:56,480
you know it's just it takes time and it

2280
01:20:00,390 --> 01:19:58,239
certainly takes money to do these

2281
01:20:02,709 --> 01:20:00,400
investigations so you got to really want

2282
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:02,719
to do it it's not going to pay you for

2283
01:20:06,709 --> 01:20:05,280
sure right i think part of the problem

2284
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:06,719
with the young people not getting

2285
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:08,400
involved is that there's so much

2286
01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:10,719
information coming in so many different

2287
01:20:15,910 --> 01:20:13,280
avenues to choose from

2288
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:15,920
and uh you know a lot of it's uh you

2289
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:18,480
know from your computer you know it's

2290
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:21,760
not yeah yeah yeah it's i kind of i'm so

2291
01:20:27,910 --> 01:20:25,920
glad i didn't grow up in this type of um

2292
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:27,920
environment because there

2293
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:29,920
when i was growing up the computer would

2294
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:32,800
fill a room and you had a punch card

2295
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:34,719
but i was always out you know playing

2296
01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:37,679
sports hiking right now i went to school

2297
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:39,360
up near up in the mountains of virginia

2298
01:20:43,270 --> 01:20:40,880
before i went to university of richmond

2299
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:43,280
but uh i was always out man i couldn't

2300
01:20:47,990 --> 01:20:46,560
sit in i didn't watch tv in my 20s 30s i

2301
01:20:49,990 --> 01:20:48,000
watched way too much now but i didn't

2302
01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:50,000
watch tv i always wanted to be out you

2303
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:52,239
know when when i was in college it was

2304
01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:55,440
usually at a bar but uh you know i i

2305
01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:57,120
always was out playing basketball or

2306
01:21:00,390 --> 01:20:59,360
playing tennis or hiking i just i

2307
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:00,400
couldn't

2308
01:21:05,590 --> 01:21:03,600
computer and play games all day

2309
01:21:07,990 --> 01:21:05,600
it's just not you know it baffles me

2310
01:21:10,709 --> 01:21:08,000
that people do that yeah well to each

2311
01:21:12,310 --> 01:21:10,719
his own i guess um now

2312
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:12,320
someone asked in the chat room what is

2313
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:15,440
your best guess as to the cause of the

2314
01:21:19,350 --> 01:21:16,880
phenomena

2315
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:19,360
of ufos

2316
01:21:25,270 --> 01:21:22,400
uh i would say that there's some type of

2317
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:25,280
technology that's interacting with our

2318
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:27,280
planet

2319
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:29,920
i i just i don't know what they are

2320
01:21:33,189 --> 01:21:31,360
where they're from you know i've always

2321
01:21:35,990 --> 01:21:33,199
said before it could be e.t

2322
01:21:38,070 --> 01:21:36,000
interdimensional time travelers

2323
01:21:39,590 --> 01:21:38,080
interdimensional time traveling aliens

2324
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,600
it could be

2325
01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:41,840
some type of

2326
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:45,920
that's creating if enough people will it

2327
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:48,080
hard enough it'll appear but you know it

2328
01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:50,080
seems like there is evidence that there

2329
01:21:54,870 --> 01:21:53,199
is a advanced technology that does fly

2330
01:21:57,669 --> 01:21:54,880
in our atmosphere

2331
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:57,679
and i've seen evidence of that on

2332
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:59,679
really good footage um some good

2333
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:01,840
pictures some good evidential stories

2334
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:04,400
along with some evidence but

2335
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:06,239
it's and it's been happening a long time

2336
01:22:11,510 --> 01:22:09,199
i mean you know and even peter the great

2337
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:11,520
and his journals talked about burning

2338
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:13,600
shields traversing the sky and those

2339
01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:15,280
guys were pretty good at describing

2340
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:16,880
things you know and the burning shield

2341
01:22:21,350 --> 01:22:18,639
crossing the sky sure sounds like a ufo

2342
01:22:22,470 --> 01:22:21,360
to me maybe a diss shaped ufo but these

2343
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:22,480
things have been happening for a long

2344
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,760
time um and i think that it's it's

2345
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:27,360
it's part of our culture it's part of

2346
01:22:33,110 --> 01:22:30,239
our history and i think that it has an

2347
01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:33,120
element that is not um

2348
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:35,679
earthbound it's the best way to say it

2349
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:37,760
right right um

2350
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:39,040
you know one of the

2351
01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:39,840
uh

2352
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:42,320
controversial subjects that comes up

2353
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:44,880
once in a while and i wondered how

2354
01:22:49,830 --> 01:22:46,800
what you thought of the whole story is

2355
01:22:55,750 --> 01:22:52,470
yeah bob i i saw his when he finally

2356
01:22:56,790 --> 01:22:55,760
gave his interview to uh george knapp in

2357
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,800
um

2358
01:23:01,990 --> 01:22:58,800
i can't remember in california where we

2359
01:23:04,830 --> 01:23:02,000
were i think it was california but um

2360
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:04,840
there's two sides of that you know his

2361
01:23:11,270 --> 01:23:08,080
his um

2362
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:11,280
the orange material element 115 didn't

2363
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:13,360
pan out the way that he said we've only

2364
01:23:17,189 --> 01:23:15,760
been able to produce like a you know a

2365
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:17,199
trillionth of a

2366
01:23:22,310 --> 01:23:19,040
dot of that stuff

2367
01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:22,320
um the one thing that i remember is that

2368
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:24,480
george knapp did you know and this has

2369
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,920
happened with uh

2370
01:23:29,669 --> 01:23:27,600
other people like the gentleman that

2371
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,679
filmed the ufo shooting that missile

2372
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:31,280
down when he was uh you know tracking

2373
01:23:34,229 --> 01:23:32,400
the missile

2374
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:34,239
is that the military will go back and

2375
01:23:37,270 --> 01:23:35,600
try to erase you from their records and

2376
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:37,280
say look you were never in the army of

2377
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:41,440
the navy with geor with uh lazar uh um

2378
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:43,440
mr knapp did find that he was in the

2379
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:44,400
book

2380
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:45,360
um

2381
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:48,719
the directory of that you know area s1

2382
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:52,159
and s2 where he worked area 51 so he was

2383
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:53,600
there even though the government said he

2384
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:55,199
wasn't there so that's kind of a red

2385
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:56,719
flag that

2386
01:23:59,990 --> 01:23:58,000
they're lying

2387
01:24:01,189 --> 01:24:00,000
he was there it's just i don't know what

2388
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:01,199
he did

2389
01:24:03,669 --> 01:24:02,560
to say that he and another guy were

2390
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:03,679
sitting there trying to figure out how

2391
01:24:06,870 --> 01:24:05,120
this machine worked and they would just

2392
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,880
check in and go if you made any progress

2393
01:24:10,070 --> 01:24:08,400
and then the speech he said they would

2394
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:10,080
just say stuff

2395
01:24:12,550 --> 01:24:11,440
but they hadn't made any progress

2396
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:12,560
because they couldn't figure out how the

2397
01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:13,920
thing worked

2398
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:15,600
it just seems a little ludicrous it

2399
01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:18,080
seems like you know if you had a

2400
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:19,840
crash saucer you were trying to reverse

2401
01:24:24,390 --> 01:24:22,400
engineer you'd have about 40 scientists

2402
01:24:26,229 --> 01:24:24,400
maybe 100 scientists each working on a

2403
01:24:27,110 --> 01:24:26,239
separate part of it so that they're not

2404
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:27,120
talking to each other they

2405
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:29,120
compartmentalize everything and then you

2406
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:31,199
try to put the story together afterwards

2407
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:32,480
i don't think you'd have a couple of

2408
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:34,080
guys working on trying to figure out

2409
01:24:39,990 --> 01:24:37,199
propulsion especially a guy that

2410
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:40,000
really doesn't have the uh the degrees

2411
01:24:43,830 --> 01:24:41,600
in the background although you know he

2412
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:43,840
seems like a smart guy as physicist he

2413
01:24:48,390 --> 01:24:46,480
built rocket engine cars but still

2414
01:24:51,189 --> 01:24:48,400
i don't know if that qualifies you to be

2415
01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:51,199
called into area 51 to work on reverse

2416
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,639
engineering an alien spacecraft so

2417
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:56,400
it's one of those things where the guy

2418
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:59,120
seems like an honest guy nice guy but i

2419
01:25:03,510 --> 01:25:01,520
i can't i can't tell if he's if it's

2420
01:25:04,629 --> 01:25:03,520
truthful or not that the one thing that

2421
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:04,639
i

2422
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:20,159
and he actually produced a w-2 stub that

2423
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:22,639
showed he was getting paid by um

2424
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:24,400
i can't remember the name of the company

2425
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:26,320
that that hires the people it's a top

2426
01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,239
secret company that flies them out on

2427
01:25:32,950 --> 01:25:31,040
those jan up blacked out window jets

2428
01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:32,960
um i can't remember the name of it but

2429
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:35,760
they filmed the building it was on tv

2430
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:38,159
wow so he was getting paychecks yeah he

2431
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:41,280
was getting paychecks um from

2432
01:25:45,189 --> 01:25:43,360
that organization that did hire the

2433
01:25:46,709 --> 01:25:45,199
people that go out to that base and plan

2434
01:25:48,550 --> 01:25:46,719
his airplane so

2435
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:48,560
and then he did bring i think was john

2436
01:25:53,750 --> 01:25:52,239
lear out there that time that um

2437
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:53,760
yeah they found those flights and i

2438
01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:55,679
remember one guy said it was a

2439
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:56,880
a kite

2440
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:59,199
but you know where they were filming was

2441
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:01,040
top secret area i don't think anybody be

2442
01:26:04,550 --> 01:26:02,639
out there flying a kite i don't think so

2443
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,560
um yeah and there are some weird things

2444
01:26:08,390 --> 01:26:06,239
that are filmed out there but you know

2445
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:08,400
could be just advanced technology that

2446
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:10,880
we have that just looks weird but

2447
01:26:14,629 --> 01:26:11,920
you know

2448
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:14,639
it's again it's a it's a great story but

2449
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:16,400
there's not much to back it up he did

2450
01:26:20,870 --> 01:26:18,080
work out there he did get paid from

2451
01:26:24,229 --> 01:26:20,880
there but what he saw and did is still a

2452
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:24,239
story right right uh scott in the chat

2453
01:26:29,669 --> 01:26:26,560
wants to know what exactly do you

2454
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,679
consider lore versus you fact and

2455
01:26:35,270 --> 01:26:32,159
ufology let me say that again

2456
01:26:37,270 --> 01:26:35,280
what do you consider law versus fact in

2457
01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:37,280
ufology

2458
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:38,639
well

2459
01:26:41,990 --> 01:26:40,159
you know it depends on where you think

2460
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:42,000
upology started i kind of go with the

2461
01:26:44,629 --> 01:26:43,760
kendall kenneth arnold sighting even

2462
01:26:45,830 --> 01:26:44,639
though

2463
01:26:47,270 --> 01:26:45,840
there was a lot of things going on

2464
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:47,280
before that

2465
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:49,840
but um you know kenneth arnold either

2466
01:26:54,870 --> 01:26:52,320
did or didn't spot these things skipping

2467
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:54,880
through the air what i found interesting

2468
01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:57,600
and it's part of the lore of the legend

2469
01:27:01,189 --> 01:26:59,920
is that they were wedge-shaped um which

2470
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,199
is very interesting because it's not

2471
01:27:04,229 --> 01:27:02,960
like he said the saucer shape which

2472
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:04,239
everybody was calling them sausage at

2473
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:06,320
the time this first early sighting was a

2474
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:08,800
wedge-shaped craft

2475
01:27:12,629 --> 01:27:11,199
flying out there near mount rainier

2476
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:12,639
i think that

2477
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:15,040
some of these early cases

2478
01:27:18,790 --> 01:27:17,280
roswell who knows what happened there

2479
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:18,800
but they certainly have lied about it a

2480
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:19,679
lot

2481
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:25,199
things that are part of ufology and the

2482
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:27,920
the lore and the legend and there's all

2483
01:27:32,390 --> 01:27:30,159
these things around the edges that

2484
01:27:35,910 --> 01:27:32,400
you're kind of like hmm you know was

2485
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:35,920
colonel corso really saying this or did

2486
01:27:39,430 --> 01:27:37,760
she think this happened or did this

2487
01:27:40,470 --> 01:27:39,440
really happen and

2488
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:40,480
and so

2489
01:27:45,430 --> 01:27:41,920
i think that

2490
01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:45,440
the ufology the the fact is everything

2491
01:27:49,030 --> 01:27:47,520
you can verify you know the really good

2492
01:27:51,030 --> 01:27:49,040
footage there's some great footage from

2493
01:27:52,550 --> 01:27:51,040
the 40s and 50s that show some very

2494
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:52,560
strange things

2495
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:54,960
way before cgi and the ability there

2496
01:27:57,910 --> 01:27:56,239
still was ability to hoax but when

2497
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:57,920
you're talking about eight millimeter 16

2498
01:28:01,350 --> 01:27:59,760
millimeter film that's pretty hard to

2499
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:01,360
fake it's pretty easy to see if you've

2500
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:03,679
tampered with that emulsion type film

2501
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:05,920
so um one thing that we've always liked

2502
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:08,000
to do is apply new technology to old

2503
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:09,920
film old pictures sometimes you can

2504
01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:12,560
polite data that a hoaxer wouldn't have

2505
01:28:15,110 --> 01:28:13,840
thought at

2506
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:15,120
at the time

2507
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:16,159
and

2508
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:18,080
so i think that

2509
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:20,800
separating lore from in fact and from

2510
01:28:26,070 --> 01:28:24,239
fiction is a matter of you know reading

2511
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:26,080
doing the research looking at some of

2512
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:28,719
the video understanding

2513
01:28:33,430 --> 01:28:31,440
how uh you know why something might be

2514
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:33,440
real why something's just a story you

2515
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:35,440
know you have to have

2516
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:37,280
a scientific method you have to be able

2517
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:39,040
to repeat something and it's really hard

2518
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:40,320
to do in this so you have to go for the

2519
01:28:43,750 --> 01:28:42,000
next best thing what kind of evidence

2520
01:28:46,149 --> 01:28:43,760
was left over how many witnesses were

2521
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:46,159
there um is it a single witness is it

2522
01:28:49,350 --> 01:28:47,760
reported anonymously there's a lot of

2523
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:49,360
red flags that come up with certain

2524
01:28:53,910 --> 01:28:51,840
types of cases and then there's one some

2525
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:53,920
that you know like whatever happened to

2526
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:55,920
fatima well if a hundred thousand people

2527
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,199
witnessed that i'm pretty sure they

2528
01:29:01,350 --> 01:28:59,360
didn't make it up something happened i

2529
01:29:03,030 --> 01:29:01,360
couldn't say what but that was a

2530
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:03,040
phenomenon and

2531
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:04,159
um

2532
01:29:07,750 --> 01:29:05,679
whether it was a miracle or whatever i

2533
01:29:09,430 --> 01:29:07,760
have no idea but you know there was

2534
01:29:10,870 --> 01:29:09,440
something that happened there i would

2535
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:10,880
love to have been there

2536
01:29:13,750 --> 01:29:12,480
um so

2537
01:29:15,910 --> 01:29:13,760
it's tough you know it's one of those

2538
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:15,920
things where a lot of people that never

2539
01:29:19,350 --> 01:29:17,920
believe in ufos and then they have a

2540
01:29:21,110 --> 01:29:19,360
sighting they're like

2541
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,120
you know i saw something i couldn't

2542
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,440
explain and it was totally outside of

2543
01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:25,679
any thing i've ever thought could

2544
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:27,199
actually fly in the sky

2545
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:28,719
and they go from being a die-hard

2546
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:30,639
skeptic to believing something because

2547
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:32,239
they had a personal experience with it

2548
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:33,040
so

2549
01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:35,840
experience with

2550
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:38,960
most of us have had at least once

2551
01:29:43,110 --> 01:29:40,800
it's it's hard to go off of other

2552
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:43,120
people's stories or or even their

2553
01:29:46,950 --> 01:29:44,639
evidence if you weren't there yourself

2554
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:46,960
you have to make a leap of faith there

2555
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:48,239
yeah yeah

2556
01:29:52,709 --> 01:29:50,560
i'm sorry our skype screen is still

2557
01:29:55,189 --> 01:29:52,719
frozen you know and i hope that caller's

2558
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:55,199
still not just sitting there on online

2559
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:58,000
um so uh we're not able to take any

2560
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:59,280
calls

2561
01:30:03,030 --> 01:30:01,120
unless i want to start skype over again

2562
01:30:05,910 --> 01:30:03,040
i'm not sure how that happened but we

2563
01:30:06,950 --> 01:30:05,920
have a question up on the uh on the chat

2564
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:06,960
room by

2565
01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:09,280
rd 1066

2566
01:30:14,229 --> 01:30:11,840
and uh which brings me to our guest next

2567
01:30:15,669 --> 01:30:14,239
week uh we have david halpern he's going

2568
01:30:17,590 --> 01:30:15,679
to be talking about the connection of

2569
01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:17,600
religions and ufos

2570
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:19,920
um so the question in the chat room is

2571
01:30:23,830 --> 01:30:21,840
he wants to know if you think the

2572
01:30:26,870 --> 01:30:23,840
world's religions are based on et

2573
01:30:30,550 --> 01:30:28,870
you know the bible could be

2574
01:30:33,510 --> 01:30:30,560
and i'm sure i'll get some grief for

2575
01:30:35,030 --> 01:30:33,520
this it could be a volume of people

2576
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:35,040
trying to explain contact with an

2577
01:30:38,950 --> 01:30:37,040
advanced civilization it sure seems like

2578
01:30:41,110 --> 01:30:38,960
parts of it are

2579
01:30:43,270 --> 01:30:41,120
the bible does talk about non-humans and

2580
01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:43,280
the nephilim and things like that

2581
01:30:48,870 --> 01:30:46,800
i don't know you know if if our

2582
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:48,880
what we believe were gods turned out to

2583
01:30:52,229 --> 01:30:49,600
be

2584
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:52,239
et's or something i can see that if

2585
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,800
advanced technology came to a very back

2586
01:30:57,669 --> 01:30:55,920
uh you know

2587
01:30:59,990 --> 01:30:57,679
old culture

2588
01:31:02,149 --> 01:31:00,000
and you know came down and flying ships

2589
01:31:04,550 --> 01:31:02,159
with the gear on and things like that

2590
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:04,560
and flashlights and lasers and

2591
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,800
communications and speakers

2592
01:31:09,189 --> 01:31:08,480
then you might consider them a god i

2593
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:09,199
just

2594
01:31:13,590 --> 01:31:12,000
you know it's one of those things where

2595
01:31:15,189 --> 01:31:13,600
i think there's a

2596
01:31:18,229 --> 01:31:15,199
religion

2597
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:18,239
should be based on the fellowship of man

2598
01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:21,120
you know and there's a lot in religion

2599
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,000
that isn't almost all of our wars have

2600
01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:26,960
been fought regarding religion

2601
01:31:32,870 --> 01:31:29,280
so i think that the purpose of religion

2602
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:32,880
is to kind of make us humble and work

2603
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:36,000
together and that um

2604
01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:37,760
you'll never be able to figure out i

2605
01:31:41,990 --> 01:31:39,440
don't think if

2606
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:42,000
a lot of what the bible says has come

2607
01:31:45,510 --> 01:31:43,199
from

2608
01:31:46,390 --> 01:31:45,520
you know witnessing

2609
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:46,400
like

2610
01:31:50,950 --> 01:31:49,440
uh uh something else coming here and you

2611
01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:50,960
think it's a god

2612
01:31:54,950 --> 01:31:53,040
you know it's just hard to differentiate

2613
01:31:56,790 --> 01:31:54,960
and the the bible you know when you

2614
01:31:58,709 --> 01:31:56,800
really dig into the chapters that were

2615
01:32:00,390 --> 01:31:58,719
left out the chapters that were put in

2616
01:32:03,030 --> 01:32:00,400
the chapters that were removed that gave

2617
01:32:04,950 --> 01:32:03,040
power to women and you know all the

2618
01:32:06,149 --> 01:32:04,960
the books that were taken out of the

2619
01:32:07,590 --> 01:32:06,159
bible

2620
01:32:09,189 --> 01:32:07,600
it just seems like it was manipulated

2621
01:32:10,870 --> 01:32:09,199
through time and you know history is

2622
01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:10,880
written by the winners so

2623
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:13,120
who knows how many stories are missing

2624
01:32:16,470 --> 01:32:15,120
how much you know

2625
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,480
is not there

2626
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:18,480
it's just hard to say i i think that's a

2627
01:32:22,470 --> 01:32:20,639
possibility but i couldn't say for sure

2628
01:32:24,229 --> 01:32:22,480
you know i'm i'm not

2629
01:32:26,629 --> 01:32:24,239
i wouldn't consider myself religious i

2630
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:26,639
have my certain beliefs but um

2631
01:32:30,310 --> 01:32:28,560
i don't know about that one it's it's

2632
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:30,320
it's tough it could

2633
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:33,360
it could be it might not be so

2634
01:32:36,310 --> 01:32:34,800
right right

2635
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:36,320
um let's see

2636
01:32:40,550 --> 01:32:38,400
in the forum we sort of went over this

2637
01:32:42,550 --> 01:32:40,560
before but there was a question up there

2638
01:32:44,790 --> 01:32:42,560
and do you think that

2639
01:32:46,470 --> 01:32:44,800
the interest in ufology will

2640
01:32:49,590 --> 01:32:46,480
dwindle in the future unless there is

2641
01:32:52,629 --> 01:32:49,600
another big event for example another

2642
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:52,639
roswell or phoenix lights case

2643
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:54,239
i think there's always a big event you

2644
01:32:58,470 --> 01:32:56,880
know if if there if there is none it'll

2645
01:33:00,390 --> 01:32:58,480
be manufactured

2646
01:33:02,310 --> 01:33:00,400
i think that uh

2647
01:33:04,550 --> 01:33:02,320
i think that as we get better and better

2648
01:33:07,350 --> 01:33:04,560
with our telescopes and our probes to

2649
01:33:09,990 --> 01:33:07,360
other planets that um

2650
01:33:12,629 --> 01:33:10,000
you know once nasa admits that there was

2651
01:33:15,910 --> 01:33:12,639
probably life on mars and it seems like

2652
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:15,920
there was life on mars then you have a

2653
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:17,120
whole shift that you're gonna have a

2654
01:33:20,149 --> 01:33:18,960
paradigm shift because

2655
01:33:22,470 --> 01:33:20,159
all the people don't believe there's

2656
01:33:23,910 --> 01:33:22,480
life anywhere else it's up here if there

2657
01:33:25,990 --> 01:33:23,920
was life on mars then again

2658
01:33:27,830 --> 01:33:26,000
mathematically you've got probably 100

2659
01:33:29,110 --> 01:33:27,840
million civilizations at least in our

2660
01:33:30,790 --> 01:33:29,120
galaxy

2661
01:33:32,229 --> 01:33:30,800
and there's what two trillion galaxies

2662
01:33:34,149 --> 01:33:32,239
out there so

2663
01:33:37,189 --> 01:33:34,159
i think that

2664
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:37,199
as more technology more media you know

2665
01:33:40,790 --> 01:33:39,040
these a lot of the movies a lot of the

2666
01:33:42,709 --> 01:33:40,800
tv shows i think the interest will

2667
01:33:44,550 --> 01:33:42,719
always be there it's just a matter of

2668
01:33:45,830 --> 01:33:44,560
whether we move in the right direction

2669
01:33:47,590 --> 01:33:45,840
and we start you know doing the

2670
01:33:48,870 --> 01:33:47,600
scientific study of ufos with

2671
01:33:50,790 --> 01:33:48,880
instruments

2672
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:50,800
and uh and stop you know with the

2673
01:33:55,669 --> 01:33:52,880
conjectures and

2674
01:33:57,189 --> 01:33:55,679
promoting hoaxes and uh you know just

2675
01:33:59,270 --> 01:33:57,199
going down these paths that lead us

2676
01:34:01,110 --> 01:33:59,280
nowhere if you just go out try to

2677
01:34:03,750 --> 01:34:01,120
capture some of this data with good

2678
01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:03,760
instrumentation and present it in a way

2679
01:34:07,669 --> 01:34:05,760
that people can understand and can be

2680
01:34:09,430 --> 01:34:07,679
scientifically verified

2681
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:09,440
then there should be a lot of interest

2682
01:34:14,390 --> 01:34:12,639
in it if it's for sensationalism and and

2683
01:34:15,830 --> 01:34:14,400
all this other stuff that could keep it

2684
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:15,840
alive also

2685
01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:18,400
i just think that um

2686
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:21,040
probably an announcement of life on mars

2687
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:23,760
would be the next really big event and

2688
01:34:27,350 --> 01:34:26,320
uh or europa or wherever we may find it

2689
01:34:28,790 --> 01:34:27,360
um

2690
01:34:30,390 --> 01:34:28,800
it seems like there's evidence you know

2691
01:34:32,310 --> 01:34:30,400
there's there's organic material that

2692
01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:32,320
seems to have come from comets and that

2693
01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:34,880
whole pansperia type of theory that you

2694
01:34:37,350 --> 01:34:36,320
know life is spread through comets

2695
01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:37,360
bacteria

2696
01:34:40,790 --> 01:34:38,960
you know hitting the atmosphere raining

2697
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:40,800
down and you've got life

2698
01:34:44,390 --> 01:34:42,400
there was that interesting case in india

2699
01:34:45,669 --> 01:34:44,400
with the red rain and you know that's

2700
01:34:47,590 --> 01:34:45,679
never really been explained they had

2701
01:34:51,270 --> 01:34:47,600
this red brain come down that had no

2702
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:51,280
nucleus but it was cells that multiplied

2703
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:53,040
and i looked at this recently because

2704
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:54,880
there was a show on tv about it and they

2705
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:56,239
still haven't figured out what it is all

2706
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:57,679
these biologists don't know what the

2707
01:35:01,110 --> 01:34:59,600
heck the cells are

2708
01:35:03,030 --> 01:35:01,120
and they made me think you know what if

2709
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:03,040
the bubonic plague and these great

2710
01:35:06,950 --> 01:35:05,199
diseases that have wiped out a good

2711
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:06,960
portion of humanity were just you know

2712
01:35:11,110 --> 01:35:09,040
some comet hit the atmosphere right over

2713
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:11,120
london at that time

2714
01:35:14,870 --> 01:35:13,280
it releases bacteria from another plant

2715
01:35:17,750 --> 01:35:14,880
that became the bubonic plague and it

2716
01:35:19,830 --> 01:35:17,760
took the human race a while to build an

2717
01:35:21,110 --> 01:35:19,840
immunity to it so that it didn't wipe us

2718
01:35:22,470 --> 01:35:21,120
out completely

2719
01:35:23,669 --> 01:35:22,480
we're pretty good with things like that

2720
01:35:25,990 --> 01:35:23,679
but you know there's a lot of weird

2721
01:35:27,430 --> 01:35:26,000
viruses that pop up out of nowhere who

2722
01:35:29,510 --> 01:35:27,440
knows where they actually come from and

2723
01:35:31,590 --> 01:35:29,520
they can be very devastating until we

2724
01:35:33,830 --> 01:35:31,600
kind of build the antibodies to combat

2725
01:35:35,990 --> 01:35:33,840
it yeah i always wonder where things you

2726
01:35:37,430 --> 01:35:36,000
know all of a sudden what is the origin

2727
01:35:39,830 --> 01:35:37,440
of some of the

2728
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:39,840
things that happen you know even even a

2729
01:35:45,110 --> 01:35:43,360
cold you know or a certain type of flu

2730
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:45,120
you know the origins are kind of a

2731
01:35:49,590 --> 01:35:46,480
mystery

2732
01:35:51,110 --> 01:35:49,600
uh next next controversial topic is uh

2733
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:51,120
disclosure

2734
01:36:00,709 --> 01:35:58,639
and uh you know stephen greer has a new

2735
01:36:02,950 --> 01:36:00,719
uh not i don't know how new it is but

2736
01:36:04,629 --> 01:36:02,960
it's a gofundme campaign right which is

2737
01:36:07,030 --> 01:36:04,639
looking to raise fifty thousand dollars

2738
01:36:08,310 --> 01:36:07,040
toward ufo disclosure

2739
01:36:10,470 --> 01:36:08,320
uh

2740
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:10,480
yeah what do you think about all that

2741
01:36:14,149 --> 01:36:12,880
i there will never be disclosure i

2742
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:14,159
really

2743
01:36:18,709 --> 01:36:15,840
you know for

2744
01:36:20,870 --> 01:36:18,719
there's two sides of this if there's

2745
01:36:22,070 --> 01:36:20,880
really they don't know much of anything

2746
01:36:22,950 --> 01:36:22,080
they're not going to come out and say

2747
01:36:25,189 --> 01:36:22,960
that

2748
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:25,199
if on the other hand there's been you

2749
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:28,560
know abductions crashes uh pilots

2750
01:36:32,229 --> 01:36:30,320
perishing chasing these things or

2751
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:32,239
getting zapped by these things

2752
01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:33,280
they're not going to come out and say

2753
01:36:36,790 --> 01:36:34,800
look you know we've been lying to you

2754
01:36:38,470 --> 01:36:36,800
for about 60 years we did get a lot of

2755
01:36:39,990 --> 01:36:38,480
really good tech out of this that we

2756
01:36:41,669 --> 01:36:40,000
seeded to certain companies that made

2757
01:36:43,910 --> 01:36:41,679
billions of dollars we did have some

2758
01:36:45,350 --> 01:36:43,920
deaths or some people being abducted but

2759
01:36:48,149 --> 01:36:45,360
hey you know don't worry about it

2760
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:48,159
everything's under control they're here

2761
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:49,600
life goes on

2762
01:36:53,669 --> 01:36:51,280
there's no scenario

2763
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,679
i can see where the government is going

2764
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:56,080
to have a reason for disclosure

2765
01:37:00,310 --> 01:36:57,760
i just don't see it unless we have some

2766
01:37:02,310 --> 01:37:00,320
type of invasion which

2767
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:02,320
is a whole other scenario but i just i

2768
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:03,920
don't think there's any reason for

2769
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:07,280
disclosure i think that also if

2770
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:10,320
disclosure would reveal some tech or

2771
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:12,880
some advances that we have over some of

2772
01:37:15,910 --> 01:37:14,000
our

2773
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:15,920
enemies that that wouldn't be a good

2774
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:17,920
thing either i wouldn't want to release

2775
01:37:20,870 --> 01:37:19,440
top secret

2776
01:37:22,390 --> 01:37:20,880
information that could compromise the

2777
01:37:25,030 --> 01:37:22,400
united states

2778
01:37:27,270 --> 01:37:25,040
so i don't see any reason for disclosure

2779
01:37:29,030 --> 01:37:27,280
i don't see it happening i think that

2780
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:29,040
you know people are trying to have that

2781
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:30,320
happen but

2782
01:37:34,229 --> 01:37:31,760
there's no compelling reason there's no

2783
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:34,239
way to force the government to do that

2784
01:37:37,510 --> 01:37:35,679
they're certainly not going to come back

2785
01:37:38,950 --> 01:37:37,520
and go oh we've been telling you a bunch

2786
01:37:41,109 --> 01:37:38,960
of crap for a long time we're going to

2787
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:41,119
open up to it now i just there's no

2788
01:37:45,590 --> 01:37:43,840
scenario no situation where i see

2789
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:45,600
disclosure happening

2790
01:37:48,470 --> 01:37:47,119
right unless it's forced unless it's

2791
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:48,480
completely forced

2792
01:37:52,229 --> 01:37:50,880
someone made a funny point in the uh

2793
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:52,239
message board

2794
01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:54,080
saying uh oh fifty thousand dollars

2795
01:37:58,310 --> 01:37:55,360
that's all it's going to cost for a

2796
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:00,470
or you know another

2797
01:38:06,470 --> 01:38:03,360
addition to the house

2798
01:38:08,149 --> 01:38:06,480
right right right well actually uh steve

2799
01:38:08,950 --> 01:38:08,159
well steve bassett

2800
01:38:11,270 --> 01:38:08,960
um

2801
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:11,280
he was my very first guest you know i

2802
01:38:15,109 --> 01:38:12,880
contacted

2803
01:38:18,229 --> 01:38:15,119
all these different people in the

2804
01:38:20,870 --> 01:38:18,239
ufology uh and steve bassett

2805
01:38:22,709 --> 01:38:20,880
right away said yeah sure yeah yeah so

2806
01:38:25,510 --> 01:38:22,719
um but anyway

2807
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:25,520
uh so for that i i do appreciate that

2808
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:28,080
but uh i i agree with you i don't think

2809
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:29,040
i think

2810
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:30,960
even if there was some type of an

2811
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:32,159
invasion

2812
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:34,560
there still wouldn't be any reason for

2813
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,719
the government to say that something was

2814
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:38,800
going on ahead of time

2815
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:40,480
right you know you know what happened if

2816
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:42,000
the government came out said yeah we are

2817
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:43,679
being visited by e.t then the first

2818
01:38:47,590 --> 01:38:45,360
thing would happen people get on social

2819
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:47,600
media and go yep they made that up

2820
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:49,199
that's a lie

2821
01:38:52,390 --> 01:38:50,880
so you could probably tell the truth and

2822
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:52,400
nobody believe it

2823
01:38:55,510 --> 01:38:54,080
right right

2824
01:38:57,270 --> 01:38:55,520
yeah i think uh

2825
01:38:59,350 --> 01:38:57,280
you know i don't think disclosure will

2826
01:39:00,229 --> 01:38:59,360
come through the government i think you

2827
01:39:05,350 --> 01:39:00,239
know

2828
01:39:07,750 --> 01:39:05,360
or

2829
01:39:09,990 --> 01:39:07,760
some type of massive sighting where that

2830
01:39:11,270 --> 01:39:10,000
just can't be discounted you know and it

2831
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:11,280
seems like

2832
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:13,360
things like the phoenix lights and you

2833
01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:16,480
know other you know witnessed accounts

2834
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:18,719
would have changed things but they don't

2835
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:20,800
so you just wonder how much of a major

2836
01:39:24,870 --> 01:39:23,040
sighting it has to be

2837
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:24,880
yeah unless you have a ufo crash the

2838
01:39:30,870 --> 01:39:27,600
mufon symposium we all get a piece of it

2839
01:39:33,350 --> 01:39:30,880
you know i just i just don't see uh any

2840
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:33,360
scenario where that's feasible

2841
01:39:36,950 --> 01:39:34,639
logical

2842
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:36,960
or is something that somebody would be

2843
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:38,159
willing to do

2844
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:41,920
right i asked seth shawstack from seti i

2845
01:39:45,750 --> 01:39:44,639
said what type of evidence do you need

2846
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:45,760
um

2847
01:39:50,870 --> 01:39:48,400
about a ufo you know ufos visiting us

2848
01:39:53,350 --> 01:39:50,880
and he said he wanted a wing of the

2849
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:53,360
smithsonian full of debris

2850
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:55,440
yeah yeah i've seen him talk about that

2851
01:39:58,870 --> 01:39:57,840
yeah and he's got a point you know i

2852
01:40:00,870 --> 01:39:58,880
mean

2853
01:40:03,030 --> 01:40:00,880
there's a lot of grandiose claims out

2854
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:03,040
there but man if

2855
01:40:08,709 --> 01:40:06,080
if we could only have a piece you know i

2856
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:08,719
just i finished reading the ufo crash at

2857
01:40:13,350 --> 01:40:11,360
aztec and all this debris that was found

2858
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:13,360
out there and i i'm just wondering you

2859
01:40:16,629 --> 01:40:14,480
know

2860
01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:16,639
if all this debris is found and it's got

2861
01:40:21,189 --> 01:40:19,360
these unusual properties why isn't this

2862
01:40:22,950 --> 01:40:21,199
being analyzed i remember linda

2863
01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:22,960
muldenhall taking those pieces that were

2864
01:40:26,550 --> 01:40:24,480
mailed to her

2865
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:26,560
to mit and all these labs and they

2866
01:40:30,709 --> 01:40:28,080
couldn't figure out what this you know

2867
01:40:33,109 --> 01:40:30,719
is this magnesium with the bismuth

2868
01:40:34,950 --> 01:40:33,119
layers manufactured but

2869
01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:34,960
had all these weird properties you know

2870
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:37,199
it seems like in what i've seen there

2871
01:40:42,229 --> 01:40:39,679
has been evidence of exotic materials

2872
01:40:44,149 --> 01:40:42,239
but nothing ever comes of it

2873
01:40:45,830 --> 01:40:44,159
so i guess it's very hard it's very hard

2874
01:40:48,390 --> 01:40:45,840
to prove something extraterrestrial

2875
01:40:50,390 --> 01:40:48,400
because if it's manufactured as using

2876
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:50,400
isotopes from earth

2877
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:52,159
there's nothing unusual about the the

2878
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:54,719
metals or the way they're combined

2879
01:40:59,830 --> 01:40:57,280
then the onus is on the person producing

2880
01:41:01,430 --> 01:40:59,840
that material to show that et and that's

2881
01:41:02,870 --> 01:41:01,440
that's almost impossible to do unless

2882
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:02,880
the thing is made of some metal we've

2883
01:41:07,830 --> 01:41:05,679
never heard of or like what happened to

2884
01:41:09,830 --> 01:41:07,840
coral with a metal in the rock was

2885
01:41:12,470 --> 01:41:09,840
combined in a way that didn't conform to

2886
01:41:14,229 --> 01:41:12,480
any periodic chart on earth

2887
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:14,239
then you have something but you know

2888
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:16,800
until that day happens i

2889
01:41:20,709 --> 01:41:18,800
i don't know even if you had a piece of

2890
01:41:22,629 --> 01:41:20,719
a spaceship where would you take it who

2891
01:41:24,470 --> 01:41:22,639
would you trust with it yeah

2892
01:41:27,030 --> 01:41:24,480
yeah i mean what what could you find out

2893
01:41:29,109 --> 01:41:27,040
and then if you release that info people

2894
01:41:31,669 --> 01:41:29,119
probably not going to believe you anyway

2895
01:41:34,790 --> 01:41:31,679
yeah as far as we know there's just so

2896
01:41:36,629 --> 01:41:34,800
many elements and so that could be like

2897
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:36,639
you say compound and

2898
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:38,400
in certain ways but yeah it would be

2899
01:41:42,149 --> 01:41:40,239
really tough to

2900
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:42,159
actually prove that

2901
01:41:45,350 --> 01:41:44,239
physical evidence was physical evidence

2902
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:45,360
i think

2903
01:41:49,189 --> 01:41:47,040
yeah because you know all our heavy

2904
01:41:50,629 --> 01:41:49,199
metals are produced by supernovas so

2905
01:41:52,550 --> 01:41:50,639
that's where you get your platinum your

2906
01:41:54,149 --> 01:41:52,560
gold and everything and the fact that

2907
01:41:55,750 --> 01:41:54,159
it's abundant in the universe or maybe

2908
01:41:57,669 --> 01:41:55,760
not as abundant you have to have you

2909
01:41:59,510 --> 01:41:57,679
know supernova to produce some of these

2910
01:42:01,510 --> 01:41:59,520
heavy elements but

2911
01:42:03,590 --> 01:42:01,520
it just seems like uh it would have to

2912
01:42:05,910 --> 01:42:03,600
be combined in a way or structured in a

2913
01:42:08,229 --> 01:42:05,920
way that's way beyond anything that we

2914
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:08,239
know about and

2915
01:42:12,229 --> 01:42:10,000
there's still a lot of data points you'd

2916
01:42:14,629 --> 01:42:12,239
have to come up with to prove that it

2917
01:42:16,790 --> 01:42:14,639
was not manufactured on earth that was

2918
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:16,800
part of a flying craft that it has

2919
01:42:21,669 --> 01:42:18,560
unusual properties

2920
01:42:23,350 --> 01:42:21,679
um it's just tough i mean what would

2921
01:42:25,109 --> 01:42:23,360
what would disclosure look like yeah i

2922
01:42:27,590 --> 01:42:25,119
don't i can't even foresee it i have no

2923
01:42:29,590 --> 01:42:27,600
idea how that would actually work

2924
01:42:31,990 --> 01:42:29,600
so you know it's it's you know and you

2925
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:32,000
have the conundrum of of any scientist

2926
01:42:36,229 --> 01:42:34,880
metallurgist or whatever that

2927
01:42:37,750 --> 01:42:36,239
would examine something like this

2928
01:42:40,229 --> 01:42:37,760
they're not going to come out and go wow

2929
01:42:41,669 --> 01:42:40,239
this is this is off-world ufo material

2930
01:42:43,510 --> 01:42:41,679
because it'll jeopardize their their

2931
01:42:44,950 --> 01:42:43,520
position and their college or their job

2932
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:44,960
or whatever so

2933
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:47,600
you know when we get material you you

2934
01:42:51,910 --> 01:42:49,840
have to do the smart thing and let labs

2935
01:42:53,750 --> 01:42:51,920
analyze it without mentioning anything

2936
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:53,760
about where it came from what it's

2937
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:56,000
attached to just try to get some data

2938
01:43:00,550 --> 01:42:58,239
don't ever mention it's from a ufo or a

2939
01:43:02,310 --> 01:43:00,560
landing site or whatever just try to

2940
01:43:04,709 --> 01:43:02,320
have them analyze it with absolutely no

2941
01:43:06,629 --> 01:43:04,719
prejudice at all because if you

2942
01:43:07,910 --> 01:43:06,639
first of all if you say it's from a ufo

2943
01:43:09,990 --> 01:43:07,920
and it turns out to have unusual

2944
01:43:11,510 --> 01:43:10,000
properties then they'll take it and

2945
01:43:12,629 --> 01:43:11,520
they'll classify it and you'll never see

2946
01:43:15,189 --> 01:43:12,639
it again and that's what happened to the

2947
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:15,199
metal socorro from the rock it was yeah

2948
01:43:22,149 --> 01:43:16,560
tell that story

2949
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:22,159
ray and uh lonnie and dr heineck were

2950
01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:24,880
standing at the landing site and socorro

2951
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:28,000
over the 1964 incident and lonnie looks

2952
01:43:31,590 --> 01:43:29,600
down and says

2953
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:31,600
there's a rock in this um

2954
01:43:35,030 --> 01:43:33,520
one of the landing pads the four landing

2955
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:35,040
gear hit and

2956
01:43:38,470 --> 01:43:36,639
line said something like that looks like

2957
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:38,480
that rock was broken in half by one of

2958
01:43:41,350 --> 01:43:40,320
the landing pads and dr heineck looked

2959
01:43:43,030 --> 01:43:41,360
down and said

2960
01:43:44,629 --> 01:43:43,040
sure does doesn't it and then they

2961
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:44,639
didn't do anything and ray realized that

2962
01:43:47,510 --> 01:43:45,760
they were going to

2963
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:47,520
not do anything and so he reminded them

2964
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:49,520
that they had to go back and do

2965
01:43:53,669 --> 01:43:51,199
the press conference

2966
01:43:55,510 --> 01:43:53,679
back in socorro and then he went back

2967
01:43:56,709 --> 01:43:55,520
got in his car drove back out grabbed

2968
01:43:58,950 --> 01:43:56,719
this rock

2969
01:44:00,470 --> 01:43:58,960
the rock had uh the landing gear scraped

2970
01:44:02,950 --> 01:44:00,480
down the rock and rolled up some metal

2971
01:44:04,950 --> 01:44:02,960
in it ray eventually got it to dr

2972
01:44:07,990 --> 01:44:04,960
frankel at goddard um

2973
01:44:09,910 --> 01:44:08,000
at goddard in maryland i believe

2974
01:44:13,030 --> 01:44:09,920
and he came back and said that the it

2975
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:13,040
was aluminum and i think uh

2976
01:44:17,270 --> 01:44:14,880
some common elements but the way it was

2977
01:44:19,270 --> 01:44:17,280
combined didn't conform to anything on

2978
01:44:21,510 --> 01:44:19,280
the periodic chart for russia united

2979
01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:21,520
states or any other country and this is

2980
01:44:23,910 --> 01:44:22,320
like

2981
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:23,920
probably in the 70s

2982
01:44:26,629 --> 01:44:24,960
and that

2983
01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:26,639
he would you know write a paper about it

2984
01:44:30,149 --> 01:44:28,400
and of course that's when he kind of

2985
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:30,159
vanished from the scene the rock was

2986
01:44:32,950 --> 01:44:31,520
given back to ray with all the metal

2987
01:44:35,270 --> 01:44:32,960
taking out of it

2988
01:44:38,070 --> 01:44:35,280
and no more was heard about that but the

2989
01:44:40,550 --> 01:44:38,080
initial report was that the combination

2990
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:40,560
of these metals was not anything

2991
01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:43,199
conformed to earth-based manufacturing

2992
01:44:47,109 --> 01:44:45,119
or smelting or anything like that

2993
01:44:49,510 --> 01:44:47,119
and that's when it obviously became

2994
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:49,520
classified the material was taken they

2995
01:44:53,030 --> 01:44:51,040
were told never to talk about it again

2996
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:53,040
and that's exactly what happened

2997
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:55,520
right right someone mentioned uh daryl

2998
01:45:04,070 --> 01:45:01,990
i know daryl yeah daryl's a nice guy and

2999
01:45:06,149 --> 01:45:04,080
uh he's actually in trouble he's in the

3000
01:45:08,550 --> 01:45:06,159
houston area right now yeah yeah he's

3001
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:08,560
underwater and daryl is a really nice

3002
01:45:12,550 --> 01:45:10,880
guy he's one of the good guys he's

3003
01:45:14,390 --> 01:45:12,560
unfortunately going through a tough time

3004
01:45:17,350 --> 01:45:14,400
right now he's in houston

3005
01:45:19,669 --> 01:45:17,360
um the recent post that i saw was there

3006
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,679
they're okay but it was very dicey for a

3007
01:45:23,910 --> 01:45:22,000
while there i feel so bad for all those

3008
01:45:26,790 --> 01:45:23,920
people because

3009
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:26,800
the water is like uh wind man when it's

3010
01:45:32,070 --> 01:45:27,840
really

3011
01:45:34,310 --> 01:45:32,080
can do there's no way to combat it water

3012
01:45:36,149 --> 01:45:34,320
will get everywhere it devastates lives

3013
01:45:38,149 --> 01:45:36,159
it's just uh

3014
01:45:40,709 --> 01:45:38,159
it's bad it's bad i've lived through

3015
01:45:42,229 --> 01:45:40,719
several hurricanes and you know there's

3016
01:45:43,910 --> 01:45:42,239
no preparing for something like that i'm

3017
01:45:45,270 --> 01:45:43,920
surprised they didn't evacuate the whole

3018
01:45:47,669 --> 01:45:45,280
area but i don't think they knew it was

3019
01:45:50,629 --> 01:45:47,679
going to be as bad as it was but um yeah

3020
01:45:52,470 --> 01:45:50,639
daryl i like daryl he's a good guy um

3021
01:45:54,149 --> 01:45:52,480
it's like richard dolan i saw richard

3022
01:45:55,830 --> 01:45:54,159
you know at nevada

3023
01:45:56,510 --> 01:45:55,840
at las vegas at the conference and he

3024
01:45:58,629 --> 01:45:56,520
was

3025
01:45:59,990 --> 01:45:58,639
distancing himself from some of the

3026
01:46:01,830 --> 01:46:00,000
speakers but

3027
01:46:04,950 --> 01:46:01,840
you know he's very cordial he's a smart

3028
01:46:07,910 --> 01:46:04,960
guy he he has good points um

3029
01:46:09,109 --> 01:46:07,920
and he seems sincere you know um

3030
01:46:10,870 --> 01:46:09,119
and there's

3031
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:10,880
few and far between in this business

3032
01:46:15,030 --> 01:46:13,280
where you know people are sincere and

3033
01:46:16,709 --> 01:46:15,040
don't try to take things from other

3034
01:46:18,870 --> 01:46:16,719
people and present it as their own or

3035
01:46:20,950 --> 01:46:18,880
stab people in the back but you know

3036
01:46:22,950 --> 01:46:20,960
everybody that's in this field knows the

3037
01:46:26,390 --> 01:46:22,960
good guys and some of the bad guys i

3038
01:46:28,390 --> 01:46:26,400
guess yeah what uh some people you know

3039
01:46:30,790 --> 01:46:28,400
along the controversial side some people

3040
01:46:34,310 --> 01:46:30,800
say there's a lot of infighting in the

3041
01:46:37,270 --> 01:46:34,320
ufo field um what do you make of

3042
01:46:40,629 --> 01:46:37,280
why that happens

3043
01:46:42,470 --> 01:46:40,639
um i think in some cases it's ego

3044
01:46:44,310 --> 01:46:42,480
somebody wants to be on top somebody

3045
01:46:47,189 --> 01:46:44,320
wants to be the presenter of all the new

3046
01:46:48,709 --> 01:46:47,199
material um somebody might find out that

3047
01:46:50,870 --> 01:46:48,719
somebody else has got something then

3048
01:46:53,030 --> 01:46:50,880
they make it their own and

3049
01:46:54,870 --> 01:46:53,040
uh you you might be friends with

3050
01:46:57,109 --> 01:46:54,880
somebody and then you present something

3051
01:46:58,709 --> 01:46:57,119
and they call bs on you and then you're

3052
01:47:00,070 --> 01:46:58,719
not friends anymore then you're trashing

3053
01:47:01,750 --> 01:47:00,080
each other

3054
01:47:03,350 --> 01:47:01,760
um the one thing i noticed at the

3055
01:47:05,189 --> 01:47:03,360
conference was a lot of people came up

3056
01:47:07,350 --> 01:47:05,199
and talked to me about other people and

3057
01:47:09,910 --> 01:47:07,360
i you know i try to stay out of

3058
01:47:11,270 --> 01:47:09,920
any type of personal attacks or anything

3059
01:47:12,629 --> 01:47:11,280
like that especially if i don't know

3060
01:47:16,229 --> 01:47:12,639
someone but

3061
01:47:18,149 --> 01:47:16,239
there's a lot of uh animosity um i mean

3062
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:18,159
people were

3063
01:47:22,790 --> 01:47:20,480
adam you know had animosity towards tony

3064
01:47:26,229 --> 01:47:22,800
and i when we got on hanger one and you

3065
01:47:28,870 --> 01:47:26,239
know um that's nothing i can control but

3066
01:47:31,030 --> 01:47:28,880
it seems like a lot of the infighting is

3067
01:47:33,430 --> 01:47:31,040
because somebody wants to be

3068
01:47:35,030 --> 01:47:33,440
the leader somebody wants to be the guy

3069
01:47:36,550 --> 01:47:35,040
that brings this to you know brings out

3070
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:36,560
the good material somebody wants to

3071
01:47:39,830 --> 01:47:38,400
generate the the money and be in control

3072
01:47:41,510 --> 01:47:39,840
of that somebody wants to control the

3073
01:47:44,070 --> 01:47:41,520
information

3074
01:47:46,149 --> 01:47:44,080
i just don't think that if we're all

3075
01:47:48,149 --> 01:47:46,159
trying to work together there's not a

3076
01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:48,159
way that we can't kind of

3077
01:47:51,830 --> 01:47:50,320
get along but um you know people have

3078
01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:51,840
different views if somebody's really

3079
01:47:55,270 --> 01:47:53,360
into abductions they're going to

3080
01:47:57,350 --> 01:47:55,280
investigate that way if somebody

3081
01:47:58,629 --> 01:47:57,360
believes there are demons or angels

3082
01:48:00,149 --> 01:47:58,639
they're going to believe that and not

3083
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:00,159
believe anybody else and then if you

3084
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:02,560
have a strong belief and people disagree

3085
01:48:05,750 --> 01:48:03,760
with you then you're going to trash them

3086
01:48:07,510 --> 01:48:05,760
on social media and then you're going to

3087
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:07,520
you know get all this infighting going

3088
01:48:12,229 --> 01:48:09,920
we're wasting time you know it's it's

3089
01:48:13,669 --> 01:48:12,239
it's it's kind of like

3090
01:48:14,950 --> 01:48:13,679
game of thrones you've been watching

3091
01:48:16,229 --> 01:48:14,960
that you know we shouldn't be fighting

3092
01:48:19,189 --> 01:48:16,239
each other because there's a much bigger

3093
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:19,199
battle coming down the road yeah um do

3094
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:20,639
you think that

3095
01:48:24,470 --> 01:48:22,480
um you're saying people should work

3096
01:48:27,510 --> 01:48:24,480
together but when you're

3097
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:27,520
like investigating cases how involved

3098
01:48:32,629 --> 01:48:29,760
i'm talking about through move on how

3099
01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:32,639
involved does that get with

3100
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:36,000
other people like networking

3101
01:48:39,910 --> 01:48:38,000
well if you have

3102
01:48:41,910 --> 01:48:39,920
a case that's similar to other cases you

3103
01:48:44,070 --> 01:48:41,920
reach out to other investigators the

3104
01:48:45,430 --> 01:48:44,080
investigators are good and mufon at

3105
01:48:46,870 --> 01:48:45,440
sharing data

3106
01:48:47,910 --> 01:48:46,880
um

3107
01:48:49,590 --> 01:48:47,920
people

3108
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:49,600
there's sometimes their power plays in

3109
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:51,520
each state you know being the state

3110
01:48:55,910 --> 01:48:54,320
director or whatever but for the most

3111
01:49:01,109 --> 01:48:55,920
part i think that people are willing to

3112
01:49:03,510 --> 01:49:01,119
share data and try to help with cases um

3113
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:03,520
it's you know whenever i go to i go to a

3114
01:49:06,310 --> 01:49:04,960
lot of these events not to listen to the

3115
01:49:08,229 --> 01:49:06,320
speakers but the network for the people

3116
01:49:10,790 --> 01:49:08,239
that i meet there like the people from

3117
01:49:12,790 --> 01:49:10,800
phoenix mufon great group of people do

3118
01:49:14,950 --> 01:49:12,800
very good work i like meeting them every

3119
01:49:17,830 --> 01:49:14,960
year i like seeing my friends from

3120
01:49:19,350 --> 01:49:17,840
colorado my friends from florida

3121
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:19,360
we usually get along we usually try to

3122
01:49:24,229 --> 01:49:22,320
help each other we'll share data

3123
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,239
it's just that

3124
01:49:29,350 --> 01:49:26,800
you know as with all of this we all have

3125
01:49:30,629 --> 01:49:29,360
jobs we all have obligations and it's

3126
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:30,639
really hard unless you're doing this

3127
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,520
full time to to do all of the uh

3128
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:35,199
collaborative work that we should be

3129
01:49:39,669 --> 01:49:36,320
doing

3130
01:49:40,950 --> 01:49:39,679
right right uh someone just asked in the

3131
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:40,960
message board

3132
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:43,360
you know when stan friedman is no longer

3133
01:49:46,070 --> 01:49:44,880
with us who will be the next stan

3134
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:46,080
freeman i

3135
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:48,320
i actually asked dan that question when

3136
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:50,000
he was on my show

3137
01:49:52,470 --> 01:49:51,679
uh surprisingly

3138
01:49:54,629 --> 01:49:52,480
uh

3139
01:49:57,990 --> 01:49:54,639
well not necessarily surprisingly he

3140
01:50:00,470 --> 01:49:58,000
said john green greenfield is it green

3141
01:50:02,470 --> 01:50:00,480
is that his last female green one yeah

3142
01:50:04,070 --> 01:50:02,480
yeah no get his name wrong

3143
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:04,080
he thinks john greenwald would and i

3144
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:06,320
told john that and he almost he almost

3145
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:08,239
you know went to tears

3146
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:10,080
well there's no replacing stanton you

3147
01:50:14,870 --> 01:50:12,800
know he's he's one of the originals um

3148
01:50:17,189 --> 01:50:14,880
john greenbald has done a great job with

3149
01:50:18,950 --> 01:50:17,199
the black vault uh you know kudos to the

3150
01:50:20,550 --> 01:50:18,960
guy for doing all his

3151
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:20,560
freedom of information requests and

3152
01:50:25,590 --> 01:50:22,560
getting a lot of great documents out

3153
01:50:27,189 --> 01:50:25,600
there i remember seeing the guy on um

3154
01:50:29,590 --> 01:50:27,199
it was unsolved mysteries or something

3155
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:29,600
when he was 14 or 15 and he's just been

3156
01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:31,520
going at it ever since i've met him

3157
01:50:34,709 --> 01:50:33,280
several times he's a very nice guy

3158
01:50:37,350 --> 01:50:34,719
family guy

3159
01:50:38,790 --> 01:50:37,360
i like john i think he does good work he

3160
01:50:40,390 --> 01:50:38,800
doesn't really

3161
01:50:42,470 --> 01:50:40,400
when he presents the material he pretty

3162
01:50:44,070 --> 01:50:42,480
much shows the documents he got he

3163
01:50:46,629 --> 01:50:44,080
doesn't really slant it one way or

3164
01:50:48,870 --> 01:50:46,639
another you kind of read into it but

3165
01:50:50,470 --> 01:50:48,880
he's doing a good job of pulling down

3166
01:50:52,149 --> 01:50:50,480
information because freedom of

3167
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:52,159
information actually you got to be very

3168
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:54,159
specific if you put the wrong word in

3169
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:55,760
there if they're saying you're looking

3170
01:50:58,950 --> 01:50:57,360
for documents on ufos but they don't

3171
01:51:01,030 --> 01:50:58,960
call them ufos they may call them

3172
01:51:03,590 --> 01:51:01,040
anomalous aerial objects you got to put

3173
01:51:06,870 --> 01:51:03,600
that wording in there to pull that

3174
01:51:09,109 --> 01:51:06,880
report you know and so he's learned how

3175
01:51:10,950 --> 01:51:09,119
to do this almost perfection so

3176
01:51:12,950 --> 01:51:10,960
you know i would say john would be if

3177
01:51:14,470 --> 01:51:12,960
somebody could take up the mantle but

3178
01:51:15,189 --> 01:51:14,480
like a lot of these guys there's you

3179
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:15,199
know

3180
01:51:18,709 --> 01:51:17,360
the mold was broke when they were when

3181
01:51:20,709 --> 01:51:18,719
they were made they'll never be another

3182
01:51:22,629 --> 01:51:20,719
guy like stanton but there's nobody else

3183
01:51:24,229 --> 01:51:22,639
like john either i think that's a good

3184
01:51:25,510 --> 01:51:24,239
analogy though that

3185
01:51:27,270 --> 01:51:25,520
john will do a lot of the work because

3186
01:51:28,790 --> 01:51:27,280
stanton does a lot of archival work he

3187
01:51:30,790 --> 01:51:28,800
looks a lot of documents he does

3188
01:51:33,270 --> 01:51:30,800
cross-referencing and tries to find the

3189
01:51:35,270 --> 01:51:33,280
validity of these things

3190
01:51:37,350 --> 01:51:35,280
but hopefully he's got you know 10 20

3191
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:37,360
years left with us

3192
01:51:42,390 --> 01:51:40,320
right right yeah he's uh he's actually

3193
01:51:44,470 --> 01:51:42,400
looking good these days he's lost he

3194
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:44,480
lost a lot of weight yeah yeah

3195
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:47,679
yeah um and jacques valet you know i

3196
01:51:52,310 --> 01:51:49,760
mean i don't know if anyone would ever

3197
01:51:54,149 --> 01:51:52,320
be able to replace him as well

3198
01:51:56,229 --> 01:51:54,159
yeah jacques um

3199
01:51:59,589 --> 01:51:56,239
i never realized how tall he was because

3200
01:52:02,550 --> 01:51:59,599
uh when we met him in arizona

3201
01:52:04,950 --> 01:52:02,560
i'm six too but he towered over me um

3202
01:52:06,310 --> 01:52:04,960
but he uh yeah he's done a lot of the

3203
01:52:08,310 --> 01:52:06,320
you know he was one of the critical

3204
01:52:09,910 --> 01:52:08,320
thinkers from early on he was talking

3205
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:09,920
about the science of thing i've read all

3206
01:52:12,709 --> 01:52:11,040
his books

3207
01:52:15,189 --> 01:52:12,719
very interesting things that go on in

3208
01:52:17,189 --> 01:52:15,199
his country too some fascinating cases a

3209
01:52:18,950 --> 01:52:17,199
lot of people probably never heard of

3210
01:52:20,709 --> 01:52:18,960
but he was a good thinker he kind of

3211
01:52:22,709 --> 01:52:20,719
trying to break it down looking at the

3212
01:52:24,709 --> 01:52:22,719
you know the the physical aspects the

3213
01:52:25,990 --> 01:52:24,719
mental aspects the

3214
01:52:28,870 --> 01:52:26,000
the uh

3215
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:28,880
ramifications through history of uh you

3216
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:31,119
know what some of these things are and

3217
01:52:33,910 --> 01:52:33,040
and kind of how they've evolved over

3218
01:52:35,589 --> 01:52:33,920
time

3219
01:52:37,589 --> 01:52:35,599
um but he's one of those types of

3220
01:52:39,750 --> 01:52:37,599
researchers that you know there's only

3221
01:52:41,669 --> 01:52:39,760
one of a kind and uh

3222
01:52:44,149 --> 01:52:41,679
he still looks good for his age i i

3223
01:52:46,629 --> 01:52:44,159
think he's in his 70s now but nice nice

3224
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:46,639
guy i really like enjoyed talking to him

3225
01:52:50,790 --> 01:52:49,199
and uh you know we need more people to

3226
01:52:53,030 --> 01:52:50,800
fill the shoes of some of these people

3227
01:52:55,189 --> 01:52:53,040
that are along with the tooth now

3228
01:52:57,189 --> 01:52:55,199
yeah that's right that's right

3229
01:52:58,709 --> 01:52:57,199
now you you don't personally have a

3230
01:53:01,430 --> 01:52:58,719
website do you

3231
01:53:05,189 --> 01:53:01,440
yeah we're move on va.com oh through the

3232
01:53:08,229 --> 01:53:05,199
mufon site okay yeah and um have you

3233
01:53:10,950 --> 01:53:08,239
ever considered writing a book yourself

3234
01:53:14,709 --> 01:53:10,960
yeah yeah we've been talking about it um

3235
01:53:17,030 --> 01:53:14,719
you and tony yeah there's uh i know that

3236
01:53:19,669 --> 01:53:17,040
kevin randle i don't think this is

3237
01:53:22,149 --> 01:53:19,679
anything well actually it's it's listed

3238
01:53:23,830 --> 01:53:22,159
kevin randle wrote a book on socorro um

3239
01:53:27,030 --> 01:53:23,840
and you know

3240
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:27,040
tony me and ray all signed you know some

3241
01:53:30,950 --> 01:53:28,560
documents saying that he could use some

3242
01:53:32,229 --> 01:53:30,960
material that we uncovered because ray

3243
01:53:34,149 --> 01:53:32,239
was the original investigator and you

3244
01:53:35,510 --> 01:53:34,159
can't do a book on socorro without

3245
01:53:37,830 --> 01:53:35,520
talking to ray

3246
01:53:39,669 --> 01:53:37,840
but uh he's he's written a book i'll be

3247
01:53:43,189 --> 01:53:39,679
interested to see that but i think

3248
01:53:45,350 --> 01:53:43,199
there's a kind of a bigger story there

3249
01:53:46,790 --> 01:53:45,360
that would include all the work that

3250
01:53:48,790 --> 01:53:46,800
ray's done that still needs to be

3251
01:53:50,070 --> 01:53:48,800
written so

3252
01:53:53,510 --> 01:53:50,080
you know we've talked about that and

3253
01:53:54,870 --> 01:53:53,520
maybe writing one about investigations

3254
01:53:56,149 --> 01:53:54,880
that's something we definitely want to

3255
01:53:57,669 --> 01:53:56,159
do we definitely want to get some things

3256
01:53:59,189 --> 01:53:57,679
down on paper we've written a lot of

3257
01:54:00,310 --> 01:53:59,199
articles we're always writing a monthly

3258
01:54:03,669 --> 01:54:00,320
article that's on you know

3259
01:54:07,910 --> 01:54:05,430
so we write articles every month we've

3260
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:07,920
talked about all the topics you know the

3261
01:54:12,310 --> 01:54:09,920
social media attacks i think problems

3262
01:54:14,310 --> 01:54:12,320
with ufology at that site

3263
01:54:16,390 --> 01:54:14,320
so um yeah that's something that you

3264
01:54:19,669 --> 01:54:16,400
know it's time trying to find time and

3265
01:54:21,990 --> 01:54:19,679
my job i drive 80 miles a day

3266
01:54:23,589 --> 01:54:22,000
round trip for my job so by the time i

3267
01:54:26,390 --> 01:54:23,599
get home i'm pretty frightened if i'm

3268
01:54:28,070 --> 01:54:26,400
gonna hit the gym or play tennis so most

3269
01:54:30,070 --> 01:54:28,080
of my work for ufology is done on the

3270
01:54:32,709 --> 01:54:30,080
weekends although i'm always assigning

3271
01:54:34,790 --> 01:54:32,719
cases and always doing research

3272
01:54:36,390 --> 01:54:34,800
so it's it's

3273
01:54:38,709 --> 01:54:36,400
it's tough you know you just got to

3274
01:54:41,189 --> 01:54:38,719
grind it out and you know if you didn't

3275
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:41,199
love doing this it certainly would be a

3276
01:54:45,510 --> 01:54:43,280
grind but i'm always fascinated by the

3277
01:54:47,750 --> 01:54:45,520
stuff we find and the information and

3278
01:54:49,270 --> 01:54:47,760
even working on a case from 1964 we're

3279
01:54:52,070 --> 01:54:49,280
still pulling new evidence and that's

3280
01:54:55,270 --> 01:54:52,080
just amazing to me that that can happen

3281
01:54:57,109 --> 01:54:55,280
wow yeah now just one last question it's

3282
01:54:59,830 --> 01:54:57,119
we're at the end of the show here just a

3283
01:55:01,750 --> 01:54:59,840
couple minutes um what are you

3284
01:55:04,709 --> 01:55:01,760
what do you consider

3285
01:55:09,830 --> 01:55:04,719
the best case that you've worked on

3286
01:55:15,669 --> 01:55:12,070
i had a case in

3287
01:55:20,950 --> 01:55:17,270
a woman

3288
01:55:23,510 --> 01:55:20,960
a family was being traumatized by

3289
01:55:25,270 --> 01:55:23,520
objects flying really low at night they

3290
01:55:28,390 --> 01:55:25,280
had a

3291
01:55:30,390 --> 01:55:28,400
some cattle mutilated on their property

3292
01:55:31,350 --> 01:55:30,400
and the son told me that he was even

3293
01:55:32,870 --> 01:55:31,360
scared

3294
01:55:34,870 --> 01:55:32,880
his mom wouldn't even go out at night

3295
01:55:37,430 --> 01:55:34,880
anymore because he he's the way he said

3296
01:55:40,870 --> 01:55:37,440
it was things would swoop down on her

3297
01:55:43,189 --> 01:55:40,880
and um and in the same area there was a

3298
01:55:45,350 --> 01:55:43,199
baby that was strapped into a carriage

3299
01:55:47,030 --> 01:55:45,360
and you're this is a less than year old

3300
01:55:48,550 --> 01:55:47,040
baby that disappeared from a locked

3301
01:55:49,669 --> 01:55:48,560
alarm home

3302
01:55:51,189 --> 01:55:49,679
turned up

3303
01:55:52,870 --> 01:55:51,199
police were called

3304
01:55:54,790 --> 01:55:52,880
couldn't find it anywhere turned up two

3305
01:55:57,189 --> 01:55:54,800
hours later on the neighbor's porch

3306
01:55:59,430 --> 01:55:57,199
still strapped into its um

3307
01:56:00,870 --> 01:55:59,440
protective seat or whatever i don't have

3308
01:56:02,950 --> 01:56:00,880
to go

3309
01:56:04,629 --> 01:56:02,960
and this was all in the same area there

3310
01:56:06,950 --> 01:56:04,639
were three or four reports so there's

3311
01:56:08,550 --> 01:56:06,960
something very unusual going on there

3312
01:56:10,870 --> 01:56:08,560
and we've always wanted to stake out

3313
01:56:13,030 --> 01:56:10,880
that area and do a search because it's

3314
01:56:15,589 --> 01:56:13,040
very mountainous as a big valley

3315
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:15,599
and i know from cases that these things

3316
01:56:18,709 --> 01:56:17,599
seem to like to travel in between down

3317
01:56:20,149 --> 01:56:18,719
in the valleys where they're not on

3318
01:56:21,109 --> 01:56:20,159
radar and they can kind of go back and

3319
01:56:23,109 --> 01:56:21,119
forth

3320
01:56:24,550 --> 01:56:23,119
you know in in stealth

3321
01:56:27,750 --> 01:56:24,560
so that was one of the most interesting

3322
01:56:30,390 --> 01:56:27,760
ones that we had it was a it

3323
01:56:33,030 --> 01:56:30,400
supposed abduction things flying down a

3324
01:56:35,270 --> 01:56:33,040
cattle mutilation um and

3325
01:56:36,550 --> 01:56:35,280
multiple multiple sightings wow whole

3326
01:56:38,310 --> 01:56:36,560
nine yards

3327
01:56:40,629 --> 01:56:38,320
yeah yeah just i would need to spend a

3328
01:56:41,990 --> 01:56:40,639
week there to try to even begin to

3329
01:56:44,790 --> 01:56:42,000
figure all that out and get all the

3330
01:56:46,870 --> 01:56:44,800
witnesses together huh well hey ben

3331
01:56:49,270 --> 01:56:46,880
thanks so much we didn't appreciate it

3332
01:56:51,669 --> 01:56:49,280
we didn't get really bad i don't think

3333
01:56:53,830 --> 01:56:51,679
no you know i try to be you know i give

3334
01:56:55,910 --> 01:56:53,840
everybody the benefit of doubt it's just

3335
01:56:57,510 --> 01:56:55,920
that some things and you know i i got to

3336
01:56:59,270 --> 01:56:57,520
ease up on the facebook stuff but

3337
01:57:01,589 --> 01:56:59,280
sometimes i just can't take it i got to

3338
01:57:03,430 --> 01:57:01,599
say something and it might

3339
01:57:05,589 --> 01:57:03,440
tee off a few people but you know at

3340
01:57:07,990 --> 01:57:05,599
least i'm being honest being real right

3341
01:57:09,510 --> 01:57:08,000
right all right ben you take care thank

3342
01:57:10,709 --> 01:57:09,520
you martin i appreciate it all right

3343
01:57:14,470 --> 01:57:10,719
i'll talk soon

3344
01:57:16,070 --> 01:57:14,480
all right sir all right bye bye-bye

3345
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:16,080
all right everyone so that's it for the

3346
01:57:20,950 --> 01:57:17,840
show thanks so much for either joining

3347
01:57:23,830 --> 01:57:20,960
in live or uh or

3348
01:57:26,550 --> 01:57:23,840
are listening as a podcast and i forgot

3349
01:57:27,430 --> 01:57:26,560
to announce that we're also on a radio

3350
01:57:28,390 --> 01:57:27,440
show

3351
01:57:30,709 --> 01:57:28,400
um

3352
01:57:32,470 --> 01:57:30,719
every week and i don't have it up in

3353
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:32,480
front of me it's a new radio show i'll

3354
01:57:37,750 --> 01:57:34,719
be talking about that next week

3355
01:57:39,510 --> 01:57:37,760
and uh don't forget uh

3356
01:57:42,149 --> 01:57:39,520
or i haven't announced this yet but next

3357
01:57:44,149 --> 01:57:42,159
week we are starting an hour earlier the

3358
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:44,159
gentleman david halpern

3359
01:57:48,229 --> 01:57:45,760
is going to be talking about ufos and

3360
01:57:50,709 --> 01:57:48,239
religion and he is a

3361
01:57:53,189 --> 01:57:50,719
a man early to rise in early to bed so

3362
01:57:54,790 --> 01:57:53,199
the best i could get out of them is

3363
01:57:56,390 --> 01:57:54,800
coming in an hour earlier it's still

3364
01:57:59,109 --> 01:57:56,400
going to be a two-hour show

3365
01:58:00,310 --> 01:57:59,119
so next week show up at seven o'clock um

3366
01:58:01,750 --> 01:58:00,320
here

3367
01:58:03,109 --> 01:58:01,760
and uh

3368
01:58:05,510 --> 01:58:03,119
thanks again if you're supporting the

3369
01:58:08,709 --> 01:58:05,520
show and thanks for uh listening and

3370
01:58:10,790 --> 01:58:08,719
watching online live

3371
01:58:12,310 --> 01:58:10,800
and remember to keep your eyes to the

3372
01:58:30,870 --> 01:58:12,320
sky